The Anti-State State w/ Ruth Wilson Gilmore and Craig Gilmore (Re-Air)

Death Panel

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4.8 • 588 Ratings

🗓️ 21 May 2026

⏱️ 153 minutes

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Summary

This episode was originally released January 26th for Death Panel patrons and is being re-aired today. To support the show and help make episodes like this one possible, become a patron at www.patreon.com/deathpanelpod In the shadow of the federal occupation of Minneapolis and a year of catastrophic expansion of the carceral state, Beatrice speaks with Ruth Wilson Gilmore and Craig Gilmore about their concept of “the anti-state state,” the process of the state’s transition from supporting social welfare to policing its provision, and why abolition is the only way. For further discussion of fascism and the anti-state state we recommend this week's patron episode with Alberto Toscano, which was directly spurred on by this episode with Ruthie and Craig. Link here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/late-fascism-w-150947880 Find Ruth WIlson Gilmore's book Abolition Geography here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9781839761713 Transcript: https://www.deathpanel.net/transcripts/anti-state-state-rwg We're testing out a new Bookshop.org page (still under construction), where you can find books by past guests and book recommendations from the hosts. Find it here: bookshop.org/shop/deathpanel Show links: Get Health Communism here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9781839765179 Find Tracy's book Abolish Rent here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9798888902523 Find Jules' latest book, A Short History of Trans Misogyny, here: https://bookshop.org/a/118130/9781804291603 Outro by Time Wharp: https://timewharp.bandcamp.com/track/tezeta

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The Welcome to the death panel.
0:34.9	Patrons, thank you so much for supporting the show.
0:37.3	None of the work that we do would be possible without you.
0:40.0	To become a supporter of the show and get access to the second weekly bonus episode,
0:44.6	as well as the entire back catalog of bonus episodes, become a patron at patreon.com
0:49.9	slash Death PanelPod.
0:52.0	And to help us out some more, share the show with your friends, post about your
0:55.6	favorite episodes, hold listening or discussion groups, pick up copies of health communism, a short
1:01.6	history of trans misogyny, and abolish rent at your local bookstore, or request them at your local
1:06.9	library and follow us at death panel underscore. I'm Beatrice Saldler-Boltan, and I'm honored
1:12.4	today to be joined by my two guests, Ruth Wilson Gilmore and Craig Gilmore, to talk about
1:17.4	an important idea in their work called the anti-state state. Ruthie is a professor of geography,
1:23.2	American Studies, and Africana Studies at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York.
1:28.0	She is co-founder of several organizations, including the California Prison Moratorium Project,
1:32.8	Critical Resistance, and the Central California Environmental Justice Network.
1:37.1	She is the author of the book Golden Gulag, Prison, Surplus, Crisis, and Opposition in Globalizing California,
1:42.9	and three decades of her work is gathered in the book
1:45.4	Abolition Geography, Essays Toward Liberation. Ruthie, welcome to the death panel. It is so great to
1:51.1	have you back on the show. It's great to be back. Thank you, Beatrice. And Craig is an organizer and
1:56.6	independent researcher. He is a co-founder of the California Prison Moratorium Project and has been
2:01.3	active with Californians United for a Responsible Budget, the No New Jails Coalition, and LA Prison
	...

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