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Part of what I'm arguing is that actually my ability to make the case against detention

is dependent on our ability to make the case against mass incarceration.

Part of what happens when you constantly make this case around border security and the ideas

that more immigrants is bad is that it hurts all of us. It hurts the ability to make this case around border security and the ideas that more immigrants is bad

is that it hurts all of us. It hurts the ability to make the case for immigrants in the U.S.

because that dehumanization is happening. And the growth of detention means more dehumanization

of migrants. The growth of Border Patrol means more dehumanization of migrants.... Welcome to the Death Panel.

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I'm Beatrice Sadler Bolton and I'm here today with returning guests and friend of the panel,

Silky Shaw.

Silky is the executive director of Detention Watch Network and she's here today to talk about

her brand new book that just came out from Haymarket called Unbilled Walls, Why Immigrant Justice Needs Abolition. Silky, welcome back to the Death Panel. As always, it's so great to have you on the show. Thanks so much for having me. It's really great to be here with you. Oh, thank you so much for coming on. I've been waiting for this book for so long now,

and I'm so excited to finally get a chance to talk about it. Thank you. No, it's been a bit of a whirlwind

with the book coming out, but I feel like it's as timely as ever, so glad to be able to offer something

...