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I think one thing that I would love for us to get into a little bit, because it's a sort of

another big aspect of this piece is there were a lot of critiques of labor and racial

incarceration capitalism that you sort of came across embedded within these letters,

critiques of the prison system, ways that disability and unproductivity, uselessness are being

leveraged strategically. And I'd love for us to get into some of those other examples that

you talk about in the article. And yeah, so can you just sort of

talk about what were some of these critiques that were leveraged? And I guess it would be interesting

also to sort of in the instances where we do know how the state responds to talk about sort of

how the state reacts to some of these petitions and framings and arguments that women make.

Yeah, let's get into it because that is the part of the article that I think, I really hope

folks who are either listening or if they choose to go read the article, that they'll walk away

and that will leave a lasting imprint, it certainly did for me.

Likewise. Yeah. And particularly because this is not, this is not a history that is told of a

consistent strategy that works. This is a history in which we are trying to understand

how we identify, and this is a direct

allusion to Sarah Haley, sabotage within the prison even when it cannot destroy it, whether that,

you know, destruction we think about is literally destroying the prison or, you know, being able to

get out of the prison yourself.

So I think a great place to start would be with a 32-year-old woman named Mary Alexander.

And in 1923, she wrote to the governor.

And you'll notice I also, from reading Pearl Finley's letter, here folks might notice that this is quite common.

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