Hello, everybody. My name is Rebecca Parsons, the chief technology officer for ThoughtWorks,

and I'd like to welcome you to another edition of the ThoughtWorks Technology podcast.

I'm one of our regular co-hosts, and I am joined by another one of my regular co-hosts, Neil Ford.

Thank you, Rebecca. Welcome everyone everyone. And today we are chatting with a ThoughtWorks alum that I actually

had the honor of being in the interview process for, I actually had known Salim, Salim Saddiki,

is our guest today. I'd known

Salim because he and I both wrote a book about an overlapping subject way, way, way many,

many years ago, a book about this IDE called a J-Builder in the Java space. And so when I saw

his name for the interview, it's like, that name seems familiar., and then it's like, wait a minute, I know

this guy, I need to recuse myself, so I became part of the friends of the hireee rather than

one of the objective evaluators. But we're joined today by Salim, who's not with ThoughtWorks

anymore, but was with ThoughtWorks for a number of years.

And he's written a book that we're going to talk about.

So welcome, Salim.

Thank you.

Thanks for those kind words, Neil and Rebecca.

So the title of your book, Saline, is Learning, Test Driven Development.

And I guess my first reaction would be, really?

In 2021, you're writing a book on Learning Texts. And I guess my first reaction would be, really?

In 2021, you're writing a book on learning test-driven development.

Discuss.

Great.

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