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Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Taylor Swift’s Trad Turn

Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Ross Douthat, News, New York Times, Journalism

4.27.2K Ratings

🗓️ 29 October 2025

⏱️ 4 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Is Taylor Swift’s “The Life of a Showgirl” the soundtrack for the Trump era? Self-titled “conservative dad” Ross Douthat thinks so, and explains why in this mini-episode of “Interesting Times.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey listeners, please indulge this break from our normal programming, while I share with you

0:07.0

my current preoccupation, the politics of the latest Taylor Swift album. And don't worry,

0:13.2

we'll still have a regular episode for you tomorrow.

0:19.5

The Life of the Showgirl is one of Taylor Swift's most polarizing albums.

0:24.7

And it's also a really interesting cultural document for the Trump era.

0:28.8

I say this as the designated driver for our family minivan, which means that I've been a

0:34.8

longtime Taylor Swift listener and appreciator, at least by proxy.

0:39.9

But I'm also a conservative dad, personally, not just professionally, which means that I'm not

0:46.2

really an appreciator of the new album's coarseness, which requires explaining to a car full of kids

0:52.1

why we won't be listening to Wood, in which Swift sings

0:56.0

about the awesomeness of her fiancée's reproductive organ. But life of a showgirl isn't

1:02.1

merely coarse. It's also a little bit conservative. And I think that combination, raunch with just a

1:09.2

touch of reaction, holds up a really interesting mirror

1:12.6

to the weird condition of right-wing culture in America today. To be clear, I'm not saying that

1:19.4

Taylor Swift, proud Kamala Harris voter, has suddenly become a Republican. But I'm not the only one to

1:26.0

notice the conservative turn. There's a lot of very

1:29.2

disappointed progressive Swift fans talking about it on TikTok right now. Is Taylor Swift using her

1:35.5

music to red pill you? In short, yes. It's missing a feminist anthem, which is something that

1:42.9

we've gotten so used to with Taylor Swift. I'm only a feminist anthem, which is something that we've gotten so used to with Taylor Swift.

1:45.2

I'm only a feminist when someone is mean to me.

1:50.3

If you listen to Wish List, say, you'll get an explicit vision of white picket-fence suburbia.

2:06.3

Or with Elda's daughter, you'll get a rhapsody about marital commitment.

...

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