Hello and welcome to the ThoughtWorks Technology podcast.

I'm one of your regular host, Director, Software Architect and Meme Rangler at ThoughtWorks, Neil Ford.

And I'm joined today by another of a regular host, Rebecca.

And I'm Rebecca Parsons.

I'm the Chief Technology Officer of ThoughtWorks.

And today, we are here to talk to Pat Kwa about his book,

Talking with Tech Leads.

So welcome Pat.

Hi, thank you very much for having me.

Very excited to be here. Some of you may recognize the combination of names that you see together in this call, because

the three of us, in fact, co-authored the Building Evolutionary Architecture's book.

But right now, ThoughtWorks is on a bit of a campaign to highlight some books that came out a few years ago that are sort

of evergreen that still have really terrific advice in them. And Pat's book about talking with

tech leads came up as part of that campaign. And Rebecca and I both volunteered to chat with him

about that book because that actually came out before the evolutionary architecture's

book. And that's the first thing many of people know about you. So if you would tell us a little

bit about your background and some biographical stuff before we start talking about tech leads

of where you are now, et cetera. Absolutely. Yeah. So I started as a technologist, engineer almost 20 years ago.

I feel like really old now.

But I've been working for a while.

And I also used to work for ThoughtWorks.

I've done consulting and played many roles across my journey.

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