Hey everyone. Welcome to The What Is Money Show. I am sitting down today with Mr. Jonathan Pazzo.

Jonathan runs an excellent podcast slash YouTube channel called The Symbolic World.

Is the YouTube channel called the same?

I think it's just my name, but it's known as a symbolic world.

Gotcha.

So Jonathan, we've been talking about this for a while.

Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, you've been on my channel once.

We had a great discussion.

And so I thought, yeah, let's do this. Yeah. Yeah, I really enjoy your work. I've discovered

you through Peterson. And yeah, I'm an avid listener to your podcast. I read your brother's book as

well, which I think we talked a little bit about. So I think a lot of these ideas you explore in symbolic world

actually have a lot of parallels to Austrian economics.

So there's these two worlds of meaning that seem to touch in different ways.

So maybe we'll explore some of that today.

But I'd like to open with the lightweight question

of what is the meaning of meaning? So we hear this word used a lot. And it just seems like a bit

of a black box to me. I'd love to hear your perspective on it. Yeah, I'm going to, so I'm going to take you in a place, like in a space that's probably a

little far from the what is money question or maybe not, I don't know.

But I think that one of the, the best way to understand meaning ultimately is something like

purpose, but not just purpose, but transformation.

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