You're listening to the Allender Center podcast with Dr. Dan Allender.

Each week, we dive into topics that reflect something of what it means to foster hope and healing

in a world so in need of restoration.

These conversations grow out of the work we do with individuals and communities across the country,

which you can learn more about at the Allender Center.org.

Well, last week, I had the privilege of interacting with Andrew Bauman and his new book,

Stumbling Toward Wholen, How the Love of God Changes Us.

And it is a lovely Nav Press book, and I am so fond of

shout-out. Yeah, just good, good people. Well,

you have a poet by the name of Rune Lazuli and

this particular quote is pretty stunning. Crawl inside this body, find me

where I am most ruin.

Love me there.

And that speaks to the reality that, you know,

the war of shame cannot be fought without engaging your body.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, that quote I feel like speaks specifically,

like some of our deepest wounds is where we desire our most deepest love.

And we have to engage the wounds of our body.

We have to engage those deep places of shame that our body bears.

Well, and here's part of the complication that shame virtually always is bound strangely to pride.

You know, you wouldn't normally think of those two as being partners in this dark dance.

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