You're listening to the Allender Center podcast with Dr. Dan Allender.

This week, Dan, Kathy Lorzell, and yours truly, Rachel Clinton, continue our conversation

about what it means to enter stories of others with curiosity, attunement, and care.

As we gear up for our new Story Sage online course, we're inviting you to consider how

you might develop the capacity to enter stories of harm and heartache for the sake of healing.

Well, we have another opportunity to talk about our new online course.

And the title of it is Story Sage.

We really want people to grow in a greater sense of what is involved, what it costs, and what it gains to be involved in meaningful conversations

that go beyond the surface, beyond even that level of, oh, I feel for you, or, hey, have

you read this book? So beyond just empathy and advice, how do we help one another grow in a

direction of not only communion together to indeed become more

honored and delighted to be in one another's presence but how do we actually invite one another

to become more of who we are who we are in the presence of the living god better said said, how do we help one another become more mature?

So what I want to do is focus our time on this question of what's involved

and where are we going actually when we start having conversations.

Kathy, Rachel, good to be with you too.

Hi, Dan.

Thanks for having us back.

Well, I noticed the law.

So let's just say.

It's hard to, so what I'm thinking about right now are examples of when I've stepped into conversations. And, you know, often when we're in at work and we're just talking to people

or even at church, right, it's a sense of, hey, how's it going? Right. Which means

...