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This is Design Matters with Debbie Millman.

For 15 years, Debbie has been talking with designers and other creative people about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about and working on.

On this episode, a conversation with Stephen Heller about the long and troubled

history of the swastika. The sign is there for people to use or not use. The question I'm

asked most is, is it redeemable or not? Here's Debbie.

Stephen Heller has published another book. For longtime, listeners of Design Matters, where Stephen Heller has published another book.

For longtime listeners of Design Matters, where Stephen Heller is a frequent guest, this will not come as breaking news.

This is simply reassuring news that, yes, one of our most revered and respected writers on culture and design is at it again.

Steve's new book is unfortunately all too timely.

Its title is The Swastika and Symbols of Hate, Extremist Iconography Today.

It's a thorough, reworking and update of a previous book,

and it tracks the Nazi symbol from its historical origins into the present day.

Steve Heller, welcome back to Design Matters.

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