Stephen Grosz - ‘Real love is going to hurt’

How To Fail With Elizabeth Day

Sony Music

Society & Culture

4.8 • 9.4K Ratings

🗓️ 8 October 2025

⏱️ 56 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Warning: this episode may contain MIND-BLOWING moments. Stephen Grosz is a practising psychoanalyst and a personal hero of mine. He has worked with patients for more than 45 years and his first book, The Examined Life, drew on these experiences. When it was published in 2013, it caused a sensation and went straight to number one in the Sunday Times bestseller list. Since then, hundreds of thousands of readers, including me, have taken it to our hearts. Now 12 years on from his debut, Grosz is back with Love's Labour, which asks fundamental questions around how to love and be loved in return, drawing on his almost half a century of clinical expertise. In this episode we discuss why real love causes suffering, why failed marriages are often the best kind, the difference between surrender and submission in relationships, why loss has to be part of being human and how we can be happy. Plus: a fascinating peek into what it’s like to be a psychoanalyst when I get to ask ‘are you ever annoyed by your clients?’ ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 02:28 Understanding Attachment to Suffering 04:25 The Role of Denial in Our Lives 06:32 Failures and Self-Perception 07:23 Stephen's Childhood 21:46 The Power of Unconscious Signals 25:24 Navigating Change and Loss 26:25 The Anxiety of Letting Go 28:22 The Price of Love 29:23 Writing from the Heart 30:16 Support Systems 32:27 Family Dynamics and Psychoanalysis 36:51 Surrender vs. Submission 45:25 Understanding Pain and Grief 48:25 Final Thoughts and Farewell 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: The aim of life is to see oneself clearly, and the world clearly. Psychoanalysis is two people not knowing - together. We have to figure it out together, and that means both of us will make mistakes and I will get it wrong. These failures brought me embarrassment, unhappiness, and pain. I wouldn't wish them away. Real love is going to hurt 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Stephen’s new book - Loves Labour: www.stephengrosz.com Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content 📚 WANT MORE? Dr Nicole LePera - The Holistic Psychologist sheds light on life’s struggles: https://link.chtbl.com/Tlf5L5Jb Emma Reed Turrell - the psychotherapist and author joins Elizabeth to discuss people-pleasing and the art of setting boundaries: https://link.chtbl.com/zthtQyEm Alain de Botton - the famed philosopher on how to love and be loved: https://link.chtbl.com/RBaS4VUy 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Elizabeth and Stephen answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: howtofailpod.com Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Sound Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	The husband may be legally married to him with the woman, my patient, but he is properly married to alcohol.
0:08.6	Some of the best marriages I've seen are failed marriages in life.
0:15.7	If you love someone, it doesn't end well. It'll either end in divorce or death.
0:20.3	Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast
0:22.6	that believes failure isn't the ending. It's the beginning of a new kind of understanding.
0:30.6	How to Fail is partnering with Bumble. The dating app that believes love in all its forms
0:36.0	is the foundation to a happy, healthy life.
0:38.9	We want to hear from you and we're collecting your love stories as a reminder that meaningful
0:44.3	connections can happen online. Have you been through a breakup but later found your person?
0:51.3	If love found you the second time around, we want to hear your story. Dating can feel
0:57.4	like a roller coaster, which is why it helps to have a bit of guidance along the way. Bumble's new
1:03.0	advice hub brings together expert tips to make the process a little easier, from breaking the ice
1:08.6	in conversations and calming predate nerves, to figuring out
1:12.5	when it's time to take things offline. So if you found love after a detour, tell us about it.
1:19.6	Send a short personal voice note to How to Fail at sonymusic.com. Share the moments that make your
1:26.3	story unforgettable, and we might just play it out on
1:29.8	how to fail. That's how to fail at sonymusic.com. We cannot wait to celebrate your second
1:36.4	chances at love. Poppies come to the end of her work visa. She partied most nights and now can't
1:42.3	afford her flight back to the UK. Her parents are annoyed, but not too worried. With their HSBC Premier bank account, they can
1:48.4	transfer money to her account abroad at HSBC UK's best exchange rates, so more of their
1:53.1	hard-earned cash actually reaches its destination. Everything's Premier when your bank account is.
1:58.1	Search HSBC Premier. HSBC UK, opening up a world of opportunity.
	...

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