Welcome back to the podcast, Bribes, Wendell, or Steel.

I'm Alexander Raghi and my guest today is Daniel Bohr.

Daniel is a partner with LaLeve in Switzerland, where he focuses primarily on regulatory

and banking law and white-collar crime and

compliance. Thank you for joining me, Daniel. Thank you, Alexandra. Let's talk first about

white-collar crime in Switzerland more generally. The anti-bribery cases come up more recently,

but Switzerland has a longer history in white-collar crime. So perhaps starting with the Swiss Post case.

The first months of this year were marked by a number of corporate compliance crises.

The year started with a case at the subsidiary of Swiss Post.

Swiss Post is a state-owned enterprise, so the Swiss government is the owner of Swiss

Post, and Swiss Post also provides post-car services, transport services in Switzerland.

And it was discovered that during the past years, the subsidiary underpresented its annual profits in order to be in a position to ask

the Swiss government and also cantons for subsidies. So the media reported that the overall

amount of subsidies which have been potentially collected in violation of the law amounts to

roughly 100 million Swiss francs. And of course, immediately the reaction in the country was,

how is that possible that over the years such a large amount of subsidies have been collected

without any control function actually asking questions and looking for

explanation. So what was interesting to see is that actually all the control functions that were

supposed to ask critical questions and look into the annual accounts, all blamed each other. So the Ministry

of Transport said we don't have the resources. We only have two employees who are supposed to audit

not only Swiss Post, but many other transport companies. So we can't do it and we were never supposed to do

it. Then the external auditor said, well, this was never in our mandate. The federal audit

...