Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 417. This is my interview with Kurt Frankum. I'm your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. But Kurt Frankum, he is the executive director and podcast host of Leading Saints, which is a nonprofit that he set up, I think it was almost 10 years ago with the mission to help provide leadership training to people who were called into positions of leadership within the LDS church.

But if you don't think that that applies to you, please don't hit that stop button.

Because if you have any type of relationship with the virtual

couch waking up to narcissism love ADHD, the mind the mirror me, murder on the couch,

or my daughter said in my live relationship question and answers any of it. So I guess that

is probably an awkward way to say that if you and I connect at all virtually, please listen to this

episode because thanks to my own emotional

immaturity, I truly almost let a friendship get away from me because I was not mentioned in a book.

And I promise you it will make sense when you listen to the interview.

But I also want to say that I am humble by the work I get to do on a daily basis.

I can't believe how fortunate I am to get to work I get to do on a daily basis. I can't believe

how fortunate I am to get to do the work I do, not just in sessions, but I get to share

information in podcasts. I get to speak to groups of people that I can help because a decade

of my work life, that was absolutely not the case. So never, ever would I have imagined

these stories that I created in my head

about not being mentioned in my friend Kurt's new book. So please stay tuned. Listen to this

interview with my friend, thank goodness, Kurt Frankum. He does have a new book that really is good.

It's called Is God Disappointed in Me, removing shame from a Gospel of Grace. It's now available

on Amazon,

and I will put a link in the show notes. But I don't want to share much more than that, but we talk

about all kinds of things, immaturity, the plague of validation, how we find our identity,

our egos, some good old emotional immaturity and narcissistic traits and tendencies talk.

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