Welcome to the Brandt & Sherry Podcast sponsored by MetaShare. To order Brandt's latest book, the men we need, or to find out more about the show, go to Brandhanson.com.

I have an interview for you here with Jared C. Wilson, and he wrote a book called Friendship with the Friend of Centers.

A remarkable possibility of closeness with Christ.

Jared's awesome. He's the guy I was telling you about. I got an argument with on Twitter.

And people remarked about how much they loved it.

Because they were like, you guys are disagreeing substantively, and you clearly appreciate each other.

And there's no rudeness. There's a sense of humor about it. Still making our points, but there's a sense of humor and lightness.

It's actually encouraged. It's weird to be encouraged by a back and forth.

That's nice.

I really appreciate Jared. So just his bio before we jump into this interview with him. I hope it's good that you appreciate it.

His bio. He's assistant professor of pastoral ministry and author and residents at Midwest through in Baptist Theological Seminary.

And a pastor and director of the pastoral training center at Liberty Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri.

He's an award-winning author of over 20 books.

He also hosts the For the Church podcast and co-host the Art of Pastoring podcast, which is published by Christianity today.

But here's the best part. He's got a second paragraph with a bio.

Jared is not a catalytic, quote, agent of change or a visionary anything.

He is a failed church planter and once made a mess of his marriage.

He likes food too much and worries way too much about what people think.

He's definitely not all that he's cracked up to be.

After nearly 30 years of ministry, he's mainly learned that he's kind of an income group.

But he knows Jesus loves him.

So that's the difference, right? It's a second paragraph.

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