You are listening to a Bill Bennett podcast special feature. It's a conversation with Charles Koch.

He is the chairman and CEO of Koch Industries.

This is part three of an eight-part series where we dive deep into the virtuous cycle, as Charles puts it, and

the virtuous cycle's potential to impact society positively in four different areas, education,

community, business, and government.

In this edition, Charles talks about taking risk in business

and examines the fear factor in business risk-taking

at an all-time high.

Here's Charles.

Well, I think it's it depends on the industry. I mean certainly

education is frozen in time largely. I mean in medicine maybe, I mean there are like remote detection, treatment.

I mean it is it is so hard to get approval.

They're so risk adverse. I mean like somebody dying they're not

allowed to even try a drug. I mean they're dying for crying out a lot. It's their life

it's not yours. You're killing them. You're giving them no chance to live and so I mean so there's certain industries

like that where there are there is the technology in both education and there are models that we could have a breakthrough.

In both, we could have a much better education at a fraction of the cost. We could have much better education at a fraction of the cost we could have much better health care at a fraction of the cost if we'd get rid of this protectionism

or this and which is to avoid risk or for people to maintain their power or income without having

to continue to innovate.

I guess that's what I'm asking has the effect of external regulations imposed

created an internal risk of fear. Yeah oh it definitely has I and this is what you know I what I'm working against, and it creates a two-tiered society.

Those who are established when you have all these barriers you have an education system that isn't

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