Special: Exploring the Ghosts of Iron Mountain with Phil Tinline
The Two Matts
The New World
4.2 • 577 Ratings
🗓️ 7 May 2026
⏱️ 47 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The Matts sit down with Phil Tinline to discuss his book The Ghosts of Iron Mountain - genuinely one of the most fascinating and consequential stories of our age. Phil tells how a 1967 hoax report into the desirability (or lack of it) of peace in America triggered a culture of conspiracy and paranoia which not only infects American politics today, but sometimes dictates it to a quite surreal degree. It’s a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation... enjoy! And once you’ve listened to the pod, do get Phil’s book The Ghosts of Iron Mountain in paperback, out today!
Produced by Matt Withers
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Satire is like an extremely sharp weapon that's liable to do more damage to the person who's using it than the person that, the subject they're trying to use it on. |
| 0:10.0 | One of the other problems to satire is that it's got to be believable enough. So you've got to, there's got to be this thread of credibility throughout it. |
| 0:21.6 | What is it about that idea of a controlling military, corporate oligarchy that is running |
| 0:30.9 | your life and is crucially global in reach that just keeps hitting the spot right to the present day. |
| 0:42.1 | Hello and happy Thursday one and all. |
| 0:44.7 | Happy Thursday one and all. |
| 0:46.3 | Hope you're all having a great day. |
| 0:47.6 | It's sunny down here in London. |
| 0:49.3 | Hope it's sunny where you are. |
| 0:50.8 | It is, of course, voting day for many of you. |
| 0:53.7 | So I hope you've all planning to or |
| 0:56.0 | have voted already. Most important to exercise your democratic privilege and do the right thing. |
| 1:04.6 | Have you voted yet, Matt? Yes, absolutely. Up at 7.10, I got to the polling station. |
| 1:10.6 | Good man, good man. Never ceases, I never ceases to be exciting voting. It'll never grow old. It is, it is one of those little thrilling moments, isn't it? It is, isn't it? Now, one of the things I wanted to mention, because folks, we're not talking about politics today, and it's not because we're not allowed to like broadcasters aren't |
| 1:28.2 | allowed to which that that is an oddity isn't it that it's very strange but it's just one of those |
| 1:33.2 | things but what we are talking about is one of the most extraordinary books i've read well this |
| 1:39.8 | this definitely in the last three or four years oh god yeah yeah, yeah. I mean, it's an extraordinary book about an extraordinary story. And it's written by Phil Tinline, who's with us today. Welcome, Phil. Hi, how are you? Very well, thank you. Very well. And it's called The Ghosts of Iron Mountain and the paperback is launched today. |
| 2:01.8 | That's right, isn't it, Phil? |
| 2:02.7 | It is, yeah. |
| 2:04.5 | Oh, happy publication day. |
| 2:08.5 | I'm not exaggerating folks when I say it's an extraordinary story. |
| 2:13.9 | And so what I'm going to do is invite Phil to tell the story at some length. Because I think without that comprehension of just how mad this whole story is, |
... |
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