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Hello, Prestige Heads, and welcome to American Prestige. I'm Danny Bessner, here as always with my friend and comrade, Derek Davison, and we are very excited to welcome back to the podcast today. Caroline Eisenberg.

Carolyn's a professor of U.S. history and American foreign policy at Hofster University,

and her book, Fire and Rain, Nixon, Kissinger, and the Wars in Southeast Asia, which was published in 2023,

recently won the extraordinarily prestigious Bancroft Prize.

So we are very happy to have Carolyn back to talk about the quote-unquote fall of Saigon and the glorious rise of

Ho Chi Minh City on the 50th anniversary of this event. So Carolyn, thank you so much for joining us

once again. I'm happy to be here. And I think we're going to have a discussion where I disagree

with you, Danny, but we'll see what happens. That's totally fine. I've been known to be

wrong. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen every four to seven years. So, Carolyn,

before we even get into that, why don't we talk about, do you remember what the fall was like,

the quote-unquote fall? I'm going to use that term. That's just because

how Americans refer to it, but I want to, Americans perceive is not aligning with any reactionary

forces on this podcast. But how is the U.S. troops leaving Vietnam in April 30, 1975?

How was that experienced in the United States itself?

What do you remember of that day?

Well, I want to clarify one really important point, which is that U.S. troops had left Vietnam in

1973.

Yeah.

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