Jana Spangler is an Integral Professional Life Coach with Symmetry Solutions who specializes in coaching individuals and couples who are experiencing shifts in their religious belief or are affected by a loved one’s shifting belief. Her work centers around understanding faith and spiritual development and offering tools to manage the challenges of relationship, identity, spiritual growth, and spiritual connection that emerge during times of shifting faith. She currently serves as a Relief Society Compassionate Service Coordinator in her ward. Jana attended The Living School—a wisdom school run by the Center for Action & Contemplation under the direction of Fr. Richard Rohr. During this two-year program, she studied Contemplative Christianity and other Wisdom Traditions and how they can support the transforming work of love in ourselves, our communities, and the world. Jana is a frequent speaker at conferences, workshops, firesides, retreats, and on podcasts, and has lectured as a guest at BYU on issues of faith and development. She lives in Holladay, Utah with her husband and three teenage children. In this episode, Jana talks with Kurt about how church leaders can have solidarity with those they lead, and the importance of having solidarity—not just service—in the church. Highlights 7:15 Everyone needs to have their own faith journey 10:15 What is solidarity vs service? 11:00 We love to serve but hate to be served 12:30 When we are going through difficulties we don't want anyone to know 13:30 What is solidarity? The move of being one with another person 15:00 We do service more than we do solidarity 17:45 The hierarchy of our church is a blessing and a curse 19:00 The shame cycle with service and solidarity 21:00 Being aware of our ego needs and how it's getting in our way of journey 22:30 The bishop is not the only one who can facilitate solidarity 23:00 A barrier to solidarity is someone who shows that they have everything together 25:00 Vulnerability is not oversharing 26:30 Jana's faith struggle and how vulnerability helped her and others 29:30 Vulnerability can help solidarity 31:00 Sharing with family 32:00 Our worth is separate from worthiness 33:30 Jesus showed us how to descend into the abyss of the difficulty of humanity 34:00 Sometimes when things are new they are uncomfortable and that's ok 40:00 A key to solidarity is that we can all learn from others, even other faiths 40:30 Another pitfall is lack of mutual accountability 42:00 It's hard to feel that we are broken and those who are listening don't share their struggles with us 42:30 Give the people who are ministered-to a chance to serve their ministers 44:00 Lean more into empathy than sympathy 46:00 Getting in the hole and not fixing things for others but make others feel heard and understood 48:30 Solidarity makes others feel heard and understood 49:30 Don't judge people in their need 52:00 When you really get to know another person your esteem of them only goes up 53:30 Stop talking people out of their experiences 54:30 Imagine that people are really doing their very best 55:15 We don't want to be attached to weakness 55:30 Solidarity as it relates to sin: being one with those who are sinners 57:00 Withhold judgement of those who sin 58:15 If you have not been through something you have no standing to have an opinion on it: just listen to them 59:30 We do a lot of damage when we think we know better because it's working for us 59:45 How do we create solidarity? 1:01:00 Connecting people who have been through similar experiences 1:02:00 Start having conversations and welcome in solidarity 1:04:00 Find a way to have people share each other's stories 1:05:00 Leaders have keys and mantels but they don't have everyone's answers. We need to trust and be with them. 1:06:15 Tradition of Quakers to meet and only ask questions and not give advice. 1:07:30 Solidarity can bring Zion