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Science Weekly

Shrinking states: a positive future with fewer people?

Science Weekly

The Guardian

Science

4.2 β€’ 1K Ratings

πŸ—“οΈ 11 September 2025

⏱️ 19 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The fertility rate in England and Wales has fallen for the third year in a row – a trend mirrored across the world, with two-thirds of the global population now living in countries with below-replacement-level fertility. In the second episode of a two-part series, Madeleine Finlay speaks to Dean Spears, assistant professor of economics at the University of Texas at Austin, and Dr Jennifer Sciubba, chief executive of the Population Reference Bureau, to ask whether declining birth rates are really something to worry about – and how societies can adapt to a future with fewer children. Watch the new Guardian documentary Between Moon Tides. Help support our independent journalism at theguardian.com/sciencepod

Transcript

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0:00.0

This is The Guardian.

0:10.8

This is Generation 1, the climate podcast from University College London.

0:15.0

Bringing groundbreaking research from the front lines of climate science, we tackle climate action

0:20.0

in all its forms, from policy and activism to AI and urban planning.

0:23.6

I am a tech optimist. I am optimistic that it will help us solve some of the challenges, especially related to climate change.

0:31.6

UCL's Generation 1, turning climate science into action. Subscribe now to UCL Generation 1 on your favorite podcast platform.

0:40.7

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And I'm not to say that because I work here.

1:09.0

Get started today at Vanta.com.

1:15.9

Thank you. And I'm not to saying that because I work here. Get started today at banta.com. On the podcast this week, we're looking at the rise and future fall of the human population,

1:22.7

as countries across the world report declining fertility rates.

1:27.0

We heard in episode one about some of the theories behind why women are having fewer children

1:32.4

and how governments have tried to counter the trend.

1:35.5

What demographers find is that at the most, they might change the timing of when people have

1:41.7

children. So if you're thinking about having a child anyway, and then the government institutes a scheme where you would get cash, you and your family

1:48.0

might decide, let's go ahead and do that now. But it does not seem to overall raise the number

1:53.0

of children someone has in their lifetime significantly.

1:56.0

Aging and shrinking populations are a big concern to many policymakers.

...

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