Should we ditch the European Convention on Human Rights?
The Story
The Times
4 • 1.5K Ratings
🗓️ 3 September 2025
⏱️ 27 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Political figures from the right and left have suggested that leaving a European convention could reduce the number of people seeking asylum in Britain. So what is the ECHR? And would leaving it actually make a difference?
This podcast was brought to you thanks to the support of readers of The Times and The Sunday Times. Subscribe today: http://thetimes.com/thestory
Guests:
- Fraser Nelson, Columnist, The Times.
- Jonathan Ames, Legal Editor, The Times.
Host: Manveen Rana
Producer: Hannah Varrall
Read more:
What would actually happen if we left the ECHR?
Leaving the ECHR won’t fix the asylum crisis
Further listening: Hard borders, harder politics: Europe’s migration crisis
Clips: GB News, Parliamentlive.tv
Photo: Getty Images
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | From The Times and the Sunday Times, this is the story. |
| 0:05.8 | I'm Manvine Rana. |
| 0:08.3 | In some ways, it's been the sound of the summer. |
| 0:12.3 | It's happening. |
| 0:13.1 | Yes, it is. |
| 0:13.8 | The pressure is mounting on the Prime Minister to change what he said to date about the |
| 0:19.1 | ECHR. |
| 0:20.0 | And to do that, we must leave the European Convention on Human Rights. |
| 0:23.6 | This government or any government will only get a grip on the out-of-control illegal immigration |
| 0:31.6 | by quitting the ECHR. |
| 0:34.6 | As it turns 75 this year, politicians of every hue seem ready to put the European Convention on Human Rights out for pasture. |
| 0:46.2 | But what exactly is in the ECHR, and would leaving it make any real difference to the asylum system? |
| 1:02.3 | No. and would leaving it make any real difference to the asylum system. The story today. Should we leave the ECHR? I'm Fraser Nelson, I'm a columnist for the times. |
| 1:21.0 | Fraser, Parliament's just come back, and one of the first things that Yvette Cooper has had to address was immigration. |
| 1:28.4 | Just talk us through some of the latest plans and why part of the conversation around it seems |
| 1:34.0 | to be about the ECHR. |
| 1:36.4 | Well, Kirstarmer announced that summer is over, but summer never really went away for |
| 1:41.5 | Nigra Farage. |
| 1:42.4 | He's been very busy throughout the summer, drawing |
| 1:44.9 | intention to the illegal immigration, small boats, arrivals, and the hotel drama in Epping. |
| 1:51.7 | Farage has had a stunningly successful campaign where he introduced the notion of lawless Britain |
| 1:56.9 | with the idea that using the sort of border control problems as a metaphor for the |
... |
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