Welcome to Skeptico, where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics.

I'm your host, Alex Akaris. Today we welcome Dr. Shiva Ayadure to Skeptico. Very interesting show. I'm really looking forward to it.

You know, any way you look at it,

Dr. Shiva is a brilliant guy, accomplished guy. Really, his story is the embodiment of what we still

think of as the American dreams, slums of Mumbai, member of a crippling Indians caste system that we often forget still holds a lot of sway in Indian society today outlawed.

But, you know, hopefully we'll have a little bit of time to talk about that.

But somehow the guy that you see on the screen and that we're talking about, he has the right stuff, he goes to school.

I heard that in your high school math, he completed all the high school math courses by the time you're 12 years old, graduated when you're 14.

That's basically right, right?

Yeah, I mean, I created the first e system when I was 14 in my high school.

They didn't have any more math classes to give me.

So I ended up going to NYU in a special computer science program.

And what we know is email today is what I created as a 14-year-old kid before I came to MIT.

Yeah, we'll talk about the email thing in a minute.

That kind of picks at me a little bit, so we'll talk about that.

But you go on, you get multiple degrees from MIT, like you just mentioned, including a PhD.

You get a Fulbright scholarship.

You start these businesses.

Just an incredible life story.

In 2020, you ran for the U.S. Senate in Massachusetts.

And you did eventually lose.

And I want to talk about whether Trump did a rug pull on you on that thing

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