Just a quick heads up before we get started. There is some adult language in today's episode.

All right, here's the show.

Why don't you just introduce yourself? Tell me who you are and what you do.

My name is Scher Freinkle, and I am a tech reporter at the New York Times and the co-author of the book, An Ugly Truth.

Shira's book, which she co-wrote with her colleague, Cecilia Kong,

is an incredible look inside Facebook at both the company and the people who made it,

including Cheryl Sandberg.

I actually want to start with a moment from your book, which I have in front of me.

And it is from your book, which I have in front of me. And it is from the 2019 Vanity Fair

New Establishment Summit or conference or whatever it's called. And you and your author,

Cecilia Kong, describe this scene where Cheryl Sandberg is being interviewed by Katie Carrick.

I hope everyone had a great lunch and Cheryl. Thank you for being here. We have a lot to talk about,

as you know, so let's get right to it. It's like really clear that Sandberg thinks this is going to be

a chatty, friendly, like here we all are interview. Do you remember writing about this? I remember

vividly, yes. So Katie Kirk asks her, since you are so associated with Facebook, how

worried are you about your personal legacy as a result of your association with this company?

What a question. Right. Do you remember what she said?

Well, I want to say the thing that I love about that moment is that Sandberg doesn't see it coming.

Katie Couric is a mom like Sandberg. She is a woman who has lost her husband like Sandberg.

And Sandberg sees her as this ally, which is why she's even sitting in that chair, making herself vulnerable to this kind of

question, right? And, you know, the book doesn't quite capture it, but the look on Sandberg's face

when that question comes is like a moment of shock and of betrayal and of like, oh, this question from this person,

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