Shany Mor, Hussein Aboubakr, and Haviv Rettig Gur on the Palestinian Predicament
The Tikvah Podcast
Tikvah
4.6 • 620 Ratings
🗓️ 23 November 2023
⏱️ 91 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
On October 7, Hamas terrorists recorded themselves in a state of joyous excitement to document their murder of so many Jews. But over the ensuing weeks, that emotion has given way to another emotion: pity for the Palestinians as passive victims of Israeli aggression. The men instigated this war are now seen as victims of this war, occupied, displaced, not murderers but among the murdered. That transformation is our focus of this episode of the Tikvah Podcast.
As it happens, that transformation is not unique to the Hamas attacks of October 2023. It is a pattern of Palestinian transformation that can be observed throughout the history of Israel. This is one of the distinguishing features of the Palestinian predicament, according to the Israeli writer Shany Mor, and it’s one of the core themes of a big essay he wrote for us at Mosaic in November 2023, called “Ecstasy and Amnesia in the Gaza Strip.”
On November 15, Mosaic editor Jonathan Silver convened a discussion of Mor’s essay, along with the Egyptian-American writer Hussein Aboubakr, and the Israeli journalist Haviv Rettig Gur. This week’s podcast brings you that conversation.
Musical selections in this podcast are drawn from the Quintet for Clarinet and Strings, op. 31a, composed by Paul Ben-Haim and performed by the ARC Ensemble.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | If you were casually to scroll through press coverage of Israel's war against Hamas, you'd see many images of physical devastation in Gaza. |
| 0:16.1 | You'd see figures listing the number of Palestinian casualties. |
| 0:19.5 | You'd see grave statements from elected |
| 0:21.4 | officials and celebrities and dignitaries pleading for a ceasefire, pleading for peace. |
| 0:27.4 | And what those elected officials and celebrities and dignitaries mean when they say they want |
| 0:32.0 | a ceasefire is not that Hamas should return every single one of the hostages bound in Gaza, |
| 0:37.1 | or that Hamas should stop its single one of the hostages bound in Gaza, or that Hamas should |
| 0:38.0 | stop its constant rocket attacks against Israeli civilians, what they mean is that they want |
| 0:43.1 | Israel to stop its pursuit of the Hamas fighters who started this war on October 7th. |
| 0:48.9 | What they are saying, these elected officials and celebrities and dignitaries, is that mighty |
| 0:53.6 | Israel, backed by America, |
| 0:55.6 | ought to restrain its desire for revenge and stop reining down fury onto the innocent civilians of Gaza. |
| 1:02.3 | In saying that, these elected officials and celebrities and dignitaries are saying |
| 1:06.6 | that the Palestinians in Gaza are passive recipients of Israeli aggression. |
| 1:11.4 | We've witnessed a transformation of the Palestinians. |
| 1:14.5 | On October 7th, Hamas terrorists were recorded with shouts of such joy and excitement, |
| 1:19.6 | having spilled Jewish blood, that they were practically transported beyond themselves in a state |
| 1:24.3 | of euphoria. |
| 1:25.4 | Most people listening to this conversation will have heard the |
| 1:28.2 | widely disseminated recording of a young Hamas fighter calling his parents to report how many Jews he |
| 1:33.7 | had killed. And many of us will have noted the overwhelming happiness in this young killer's voice. |
| 1:39.6 | It seemed to be the high point of his life, his signal achievement, his deepest aspiration satisfied. |
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