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Savage Lovecast

Sex & Politics #42

Savage Lovecast

Dan Savage

Relationships, Society & Culture, Sexuality, Health & Fitness

4.66.4K Ratings

🗓️ 5 February 2026

⏱️ 24 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Dan interviews, argues and politely spars with gay evangelical Christian Matthew Vines, author of "God and the Gay Christian." Vines, who is married to his husband since 2022, was a potent advocate for gay marriage. Now he and Dan have a debate about the role of monogamy in gay life and society in general. They both take the gloves off, and somehow remain friends at the end of this long conversation. We are releasing about 20 minutes of it on the Micro version, and the whole thing is on the Magnum, available by subscription at Savage.Love. Check out Matthews book God and the Gay Christian, and his talk on monogamy at The Reformation Project's 2025 Reconcile & Reform Conference.

Transcript

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0:00.0

You're listening to Sex and Politics at Savage. Love.

0:12.5

Sex and politics.

0:15.5

Hey there, Micro Savage Lovecast listeners.

0:18.3

We wanted to share a little taste of sex and politics with you.

0:22.3

Sex and Politics is a bonus podcast. We produce every once in a while for our Magnum Subs.

0:27.0

Sex and Politics is just one of the perks for subs, along with more calls and guests on the

0:31.4

Lovecast, more questions, and Savage Love the column, and invites to Savage Love Live Zoom

0:37.3

Hangouts. In this installment of sex and

0:40.4

politics, I speak with author, activist, speaker, Matthew Vines. Vines was a student at Harvard in

0:47.5

2012 when he took a leave of absence to study the Bible and homosexuality. He was an evangelical

0:53.7

Christian kid going to Harvard.

0:56.1

He went home to the church in Wichita, Kansas, where he had been raised, and gave a speech

1:01.0

to the congregation where he'd been raised about why the church should accept gay people

1:06.0

and accept gay relationships.

1:08.8

That went on to become a book called God and the gay Christian, the

1:12.4

biblical case in support of same-sex relationships. And Matthew went on to found the Reformation

1:18.0

Project, which works with evangelical Christian communities to help them get the fuck over their hatred

1:24.1

and fear of gay men and lesbians and bisexual people and our relationships.

1:30.2

When you look at trend lines among evangelical Christians, what you see over the last decade

1:34.1

and change is growing support for same-sex marriage, Matthew Vines can take a great share of the

1:41.7

credit for that growing support.

1:47.1

I invited Matthew to come on the show and talk.

...

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