So many really good people have become convinced that there's really no alternative.

It's better than nothing.

And the whole idea of market-based environmental management, basically solving capitalist chaos

with more capitalism, maybe some slightly reform, you know, tweaked capitalism.

This is really the dominant principle in climate policy of municipal governments, state governments, the U.S. Biden administration, and really worldwide. I'm. I'm.

I'm

. Welcome to the Death Panel.

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So today I'm here with my co-host, Abby Cardis.

Hello.

And the two of us are joined by a great guest today, Dr. Kathy McAfee.

Kathy is a professor of international relations at San Francisco State University and studies

the rationale and results of selling nature to save it.

As governments and companies try to solve climate and biodiversity crises by pricing environmental

benefits and harms in dollars.

Kathy, welcome to the death panel. It's so nice to have you on the show.

...