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The Good Fight

Sebastian Mallaby on AI Safety and the Race for Superintelligence

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7963 Ratings

🗓️ 4 April 2026

⏱️ 55 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Yascha Mounk and Sebastian Mallaby discuss why tech leaders both fear and accelerate dangerous AI development, and whether open-source models pose unacceptable risks. Sebastian Mallaby is the author of several books including The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence. A former Financial Times contributing editor and two-time Pulitzer Prize finalist, Mallaby is the Paul A. Volcker Senior Fellow for International Economics at the Council on Foreign Relations.  In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Sebastian Mallaby discuss why AI developers simultaneously fear and advance potentially dangerous technology, whether open-source AI models pose unacceptable security risks, and how China and the United States differ in their approaches to AI safety. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following ⁠⁠⁠this link on your phone⁠⁠⁠. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Google⁠⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠Yascha Mounk⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Persuasion⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠Persuasion Community⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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It's like crazy. It's like, you know, it's kind of like, you know, 20 years of scenario

0:34.7

planning on the straight-of-form moves and you go and do it anyway, and it's on that level of idiocy.

0:39.3

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:46.3

What makes the people who are inventing the most transformative technology of this moment, artificial intelligence, tick.

0:58.7

How is this technology going to influence the world?

1:02.9

How worry should we be about existential doom, which the founders of this technology themselves seem to take very seriously, and yet they are the

1:13.2

ones who are building the potential doomsday machine. What impact will artificial intelligence

1:20.3

have more broadly on our economy, on the job market, on our politics? And finally, how is the rise of the big AI companies transforming the power rankings in Silicon

1:36.9

Valley and in the United States?

1:39.9

Are they actually eclipsing in various ways the influence of venture capital, which ruled

1:45.8

supreme for the previous 15 years? Well, here to answer all of these questions is Sebastian Malaby,

1:55.8

one of the most distinguished writers about capitalism and the economy. He is the author among other distinguished

2:05.1

books of more money than God, hedge funds and the making of a new elite, and the power law,

2:15.4

venture capital and the making of the new future. His latest book, which we

2:19.9

focus on in this conversation, is called The Infinity Machine, and it both is a biography of

2:26.8

this technology and a biography of Demis Hasebis, one of the founders of Deep Mind.

2:35.1

In the last part of this conversation, we talked about the competition between the AI

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