He was a charming con man, a master manipulator, a little bit like Donna Adelson, maybe,

and eventually a serial killer.

Before Scott Kimball became one of the FBI's most notorious informants termed predators,

there were warning signs in his early life, signs that most of us would have missed.

But my guest tonight, retired FBI special agent Johnny Gruising, he didn't miss them.

And the ones he may have missed, he caught writing his book. We're about to talk to him.

Welcome to the global phenomenon surviving the survivor where we bring

you the best guests in all of true crime here's your host emmy award winning journalist joel

what's up s jes nation welcome to survive and the survivor this is the show that brings you the very

best guests in all of true crime and And if you're into true crime,

there's a serial killer out there now behind bars. Scott Kimball, he is a smooth talking fraudster

who turned into an absolutely cold-blooded killer and joining us to discuss him and how it's affected other cases

and how the FBI looks at serial killers and other criminal cases.

Here is retired FBI agent Johnny Gruising, special agent Johnny Grusing. He's a a special guy and I mean it in a good way

I was humbled and honored to write a blurb for this book the title is the devil I knew

Johnny welcome to survive and survivor been too long. How are you?

Hey, Joel. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back. Yeah, I love having you back. So I know that the main

title is the devil. You have a funky subtitle to it? Yeah, the subtitle is unmasking a serial killer.

There you go. Unmasking a serial killer, which is something everyone in true crime is really, you know,

to me, the reason I got into true crime, my dad was a psychiatrist and my mother is a licensed

social worker.

So I am fascinated by the psychology of these people, you know, how their minds work.

...