Scaling Laws: Contrasting and Conflicting Efforts to Regulate Big Tech: EU v. U.S.

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 5 September 2025

⏱️ 48 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Anu Bradford, Professor at Columbia Law School, and Kate Klonick, Senior Editor at Lawfare and Associate Professor at St. John's University School of Law, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to assess the ongoing, contrasting, and, at times, conflicting regulatory approaches to Big Tech being pursued by the EU and U.S. The trio start with an assessment of the EU’s use of the Brussels Effect, coined by Anu, to shape AI development. Next, they explore the U.S.’s increasingly interventionist industrial policy with respect to key sectors, especially tech.

Read more:

Anu’s op-ed in The New York Times
"The Impact of Regulation on Innovation," by Philippe Aghion, Antonin Bergeaud, and John Van Reenen
Draghi Report on the Future of European Competitiveness

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
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0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter,
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0:33.5	Hey, it's Adam Grant from Worklife, a podcast from TED. This episode is brought to you by FreshWorks.
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1:07.3	Learn more at freshworks.com.
1:14.3	It's the Lawfare Podcast. I'm Alan Rosenstein, associate professor of law at the University of
1:19.5	Minnesota, and a senior editor and research director at Lawfare. Today we're bringing you
1:24.1	something a little different, an episode from our new podcast series, Scaling Laws.
1:28.6	It's a creation of Lawfare and the University of Texas School of Law, where we're tackling the most important AI and policy questions,
1:35.4	from new legislation on Capitol Hill to the latest breakthroughs that are happening in the labs.
1:40.3	We cut through the hype to get you up to speed on the rules, standards, and ideas shaping the future of this pivotal technology.
1:46.7	If you enjoy this episode, you can find and subscribe to scaling laws wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on X and Blue Sky.
1:53.6	Thanks for listening.
	...

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