Scaling Laws: AI Safety Meet Trust & Safety with Ravi Iyer and David Sullivan
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.2K Ratings
🗓️ 10 October 2025
⏱️ 51 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, and Rayi Iyer, Managing Director of the Psychology of Technology Institute at USC’s Neely Center, join Kevin Frazier, AI Innovation and Law Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Editor at Lawfare, to discuss the evolution of the Trust & Safety field and its relevance to ongoing conversations about how best to govern AI.
They discuss the importance of thinking about the end user in regulation, debate the differences and similarities between social media and AI companions, and evaluate current policy proposals.
Leo Wu provided excellent research assistance to prepare for this podcast.
Read more from David:
- "Why we need to make safety the product to build better bots," from the World Economic Forum Centre for AI Excellence
- "Learning from the Past to Shape the Future of Digital Trust and Safety," in Tech Policy Press
Read more from Ravi:
- "Ravi Iyer on How to Improve Technology Through Design," from Lawfare's Arbiters of Truth series
- "Regulate Design, not Speech," from the Designing Tomorrow Substack
Read more from Kevin:
- "California in Your Chatroom: AB 1064’s Likely Constitutional Overreach," from the Cato Institute
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Transcript
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| 1:04.2 | It's the Lawfare podcast. |
| 1:06.2 | I'm Alan Rosenstein, Associate Professor of Law at the University of Minnesota, and a senior |
| 1:10.5 | editor and |
| 1:11.2 | research director at Lawfare. Today we're bringing you something a little different, an episode |
| 1:15.7 | from our new podcast series, Scaling Laws. It's a creation of Lawfare and the University of Texas |
| 1:20.8 | School of Law, where we're tackling the most important AI and policy questions, from new |
| 1:25.6 | legislation on Capitol Hill to the latest |
| 1:27.8 | breakthroughs that are happening in the labs. We cut through the hype to get you up to speed on the |
| 1:32.2 | rules, standards, and ideas shaping the future of this pivotal technology. If you enjoy this |
... |
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