Lawfare Daily: The State of the Spyware Industry with Jen Roberts and Sarah Graham

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 9 October 2025

⏱️ 41 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Jen Roberts, Associate Director of the Atlantic Council’s Cyber Statecraft Initiative, and Sarah Graham, Research Consultant with the Atlantic Council’s Cyber Statecraft Initiative, who are coauthors along with Nitansha Bansal of the recent paper, “Mythical Beasts: Diving Into the Depths of the Global Spyware Market,” join Lawfare’s Justin Sherman to discuss the global spyware industry, how it has evolved in recent years, and what its future holds. They also discuss the geographic concentration of key spyware entities in several countries; a rise in U.S. investors in the spyware industry; how “strategic jurisdiction hopping,” name changes, and corporate structure shifts impact spyware firms’ evolution and transparency into their activities; and how U.S. policymakers should approach the global spyware market going forward.

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1:04.0	Reporting suggests that brokers and resellers really perhaps distort the price of capabilities
1:10.0	and the exploits they rely on.
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1:13.8	And despite that, really introduce more risks to the entire supply chain,
1:18.9	therefore constituting a really important but so far relatively understudied force in the market itself.
1:25.4	It's the Lawfare podcast.
1:27.6	I'm Justin Sherman, contributing editor at Lawfare and CEO of Global Cyber Strategies,
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