A lot of crypto guys would say to me, okay, so there's like some scams in crypto, but aren't there a lot of scams on the stock market too?

And as you point out, I mean, yes, there are scams on the stock market, but when you buy a share of Facebook and you're gonna,

Facebook earns money every time someone opens at Instagram app and looks at some ads and you your share represents some claim some tiny claim on on those profits and that is what supports the value of Facebook stock.

Like Dogecoin, there's no way for it to ever make money

or Dogwith hat.

So the only value it has is that you're hoping that you are getting in early and somebody else is going to buy it for some reason later.

I'm Mary Long and that's Sikh Fox. Author of the book Number Go Up, Inside

crypto's wild rise and staggering fall. My colleague Gricky Mulby caught up with Fox for a

conversation about what it was like to be with Sam Bankman freed in the days

before his trial and why he got such a long sentence. They also discuss

Bitcoin's philosophical inconsistencies, how a Russian smuggler uses tether, a swimming pool and what it means to have both everything and nothing at the same time.

The main story is that Sam Bman Freed got 25 years. He's the he's the guy on the

cover of your book and it seems that his story is is kind of over. The main thing that

happened because for setup which could take a while but the main

thing it seems like is that the hedge fund attached to his trading arm FTX got customer money

from the trading arm to plug trading losses and the people on the

trading arm did not know about that.

That their customer money was being used to sort of cover up the losses for these wild bets that the hedge fund was taking.

Like is there more to the crux of it or is that is that is that the heart? Is that the

meat? That's a pretty good summary. I mean, if you're not a crypto person, you might not really know what FTX was.

And it was a trading app that looked just like, you know, e-trade or Schwab or anything and you'd log in and

instead of seeing that you had stocks it would show that you had you know two

...