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I started noticing that some of the more effective movements were ones that weren't really

asking the government to change this or that. They were like, we're taking over this place

because the government or a corporation is going to treat it very, very badly if we don't

or is treating it badly.

And we are going to try and govern it ourselves for as long as we can and for as big of a

spatial extent as we can.

And essentially, we're going to try to replace the state.

And I started seeing just how effective those techniques were. And that's what kind of led

me to write this book is I think they're techniques that really could be brought into more

activism in North America.

Hey, you're listening to Green Dreamer, and I'm your host, Kamehashane.

This conversation, if I may say so, is a must listen for these times.

I'm speaking today with Sasha Davis, the author of Islands and Oceans, reimagining

...