You talk about like the fact there's there's a copy of you somewhere in the multiverse,

and I just don't believe that. I think like you only exist here.

Like this is it. People think that they predict the future, but what they're doing is predicting

recurring patterns from the past. The future will not be fully predictable ever.

The fact that humans have the recorded history we have now is the only reason that we can

even conceive how big the universe actually is.

What is the universe actually doing as a physical system? It's building itself, right? Because

like there's nothing outside of it to build it. Life is literally the physics of what gets to exist

and why. We don't know where the boundary is between life and not life. I think artificial

intelligence is life. But it would be a fundamentally different question

about whether you want to assess whether it was alive or not. Sarah Walker is a theoretical physicist,

an astrobiologist who's working on some of science's deepest questions. What life is, where it came

from, and whether we'd recognize it elsewhere in the universe, you know, kind of like in artificial intelligence. She has co-developed assembly theory that is meant to distinguish living

systems from non-living ones. So we're going to be having a conversation about the non-living

systems that we see around us. And she also wrote the book, Life as No One Knows It, the Physics

of Life's Emergence. She's appeared on Joe Rogan multiple times, Lex Freeman multiple times, and now I'm excited to pit her up against Wes Roth. Thank you so much for being here. I guess let's kick off our discussion. It's such an interesting conversation. So I guess let's start at kind of the intersection of kind of what I talk about,

what you talk about, which is, you know, is AI life. I know that's kind of a broad question,

but maybe let's talk about that. Yeah, I think obviously it's on the tip of people's mind about

how intelligent or how alive these technologies that we're making are.

And it's a very deep question because we actually don't know what life is.

And so I think a lot about fundamentally what life is coming from the perspective of like trying to study the origin life and look for examples of alien life, like I've done in my career, it gives you kind of a different lens to think about the question of AI being a life.

And I think the easiest place to start with that is really to think about, you know, there's kind of this fixation that life is going to be

...