From away to garden.com and Robinhood Radio.com, this is Away to Garden with Margaret Roach. You're a weekly invitation to dig in and grow. If we're shopping for native plants with the most ecological impact, ones with the most pollinator appeal, for example, then simply choosing by the prettiest picture on a label or by

a catalog photo won't get you to your goal. It helps to understand the vocabulary of natives, words like straight species and ecotype and selection and cultivar, especially with cultivars, the cultivated named varieties of say, echinacea or flocks or asters of which there are now so many to choose from. We need to learn to read between the lines on those plant labels because not all cultivars are created equal. Sam Haudley, the manager of horticultural research at Mt. Cuba Center in Delaware, is here to tell us how to do just that. So more in a moment but first, these messages. Underwriting support for a way to garden provided by Colorblends wholesale flower bulbs. A third-generation bulb company offering top-size flower bulbs directly to landscape professionals and ambitious residential gardeners on the web, Colorblends.com. And by high-moving seeds, Wolcott Vermont, professional quality vegetable, flower, and herbal seeds that are 100% organic and non-GMO project verified. On the web, highmoingseeds.com and by Whiteflower Farm offering a wide range of carefully selected and expertly grown garden plants. On the web, whiteflower farm.com Since 2002, Mt. Cuba Center in Delaware has been studying native plants and their cultivars for their garden worthiness and ecological value. And since 2019, Sam Haudley has been heading up that effort, conducting multi-year trials that compare different species and varieties in a genus. Sam's here today to help us become more informed native plant shoppers and gardeners.

Welcome back, Sam, good to talk to you as ever. Absolutely, thank you so much for having me again, Margaret. Yeah, usually we're talking about the results of a trial. You've just completed. That's right. That's right. And this is a little different because I had been noticing with like reader comments on my New York Times Com's on my blog post and so forth that People were confused about cultivars and had a lot of opinions sure and I was a lot of blowback and sometimes You know and so forth and so I had reached out to you and you said oh, yeah, yeah Absolutely, we see that too and we decided to do this New York Times garden column together recently So I wanted to do that sort of here again. That's the background. And so I guess we got to start with some definitions. Should we start where it all begins with the straight species? Yeah, straight species is kind of your wild plant. When you go out for a walk in the woods, you're seeing wild non-cultivated plants and you're seeing a lot of genetic diversity amongst plant populations. So just like people in most plant species, each individual is an individual. Some of them may look very similar, but they are genetically diverse. And that's what people often mean when they're talking about wild type or straight species. But even in cultivation, when you're talking about a wild type or straight species, you're only in many cases getting a small slice of the diversity that exists out there in the wild. Whether that's maybe from one seed collection, from one population, one place at one time, even your wild type or straight species can be more limited than what exists in the wild in many cases. Right. Because I mean, the diversity is a survival strategy, all that genetic diversity within a population. And then there's populations in so many different places and they have different traits as well because they've survived in that particular location and oh my goodness. And that's why of course we hear about, oh I want a local. Right. And so then we get to what eco type is that what we get to or what do we get to? Yeah. So eco type is basically genetics of a species that are adapted to a particular place. And often we just kind of use eco type a little little bit loosely at Mount Cuba Center in terms of it. We just kind of use that to point to where that plant came from, where it originated from. And we use ECO type to compare basically genetic differences and garden performances within a species across sometimes a relatively large range, which we're trying to show differences that you can see in cultivation amongst that species based on where it was collected, where those genetics came from, where they were adapted to. But eco-types and locally native plants can be really important, especially for restoration projects. I think, and there are specific instances where having local genetics can be particularly valuable. Right. And sometimes, you know, they're the hardest thing to find. I mean, that's the other thing. And that's been, and I know there's a big change underway in the nursery industry to try to meet the rising demand and change that. But boy, that's been a hard thing because up till now, if I wanted little blue stem, which is something that's native where I garden and I have some on my property. But if I wanted to create a larger area of it, and I didn't want to collect my own seed and do it that way, probably it would have come from the Midwest, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, things like that. Absolutely. It can be really difficult to sometimes track down where these wild type like street species plants have come from. Right. You know, your seed might have been grown somewhere in the Midwest and maybe that plant was or that seed was sent to a nursery in Oregon. Those seeds were germinated and then those seedlings were sent to a nursery in the mid-Atlantic. And then those plants were then sent to a nursery in New England. Some of these plants are very, very well traveled. I was good to say, yeah. Yeah, and it can be very difficult to understand or to know where they came from. And I think what we can demand as consumers is a little more transparency from nurseries. And we're seeing more availability of locally native plants and locally collected seed from some of these smaller, more specialty native plant nurseries, which is a really encouraging and great trend to see. Right. So then, so we have our straight species, our wild type, and then we talked a little bit about eco-type, you know, a sort of local version. But then there's the word cult of R. And everybody right away ricochets, at least this is what I was seeing in the comments and why I called you up that day. Yes, we're not long ago. I was like, is everybody really angry at you too? Oh, yes. Every time you say that. And so this is one where I think as you said to me when we were doing the time story it's like people visualize people in white lab coats right inventing things so to speak you know and that there's nothing natural about it and and and and like I said in the introduction all cultivars are not created equal. So what's a cultivar and what's the range of cultivars? Yeah, so in the broadest of terms or broadest of definitions, a cultivar is a cultivated plant. But most of the time when we're talking about cultivars, we are talking about a plant that has some English name attached to its Latin name. So you have your genus name, your specific epithet, so let's say, I don't know, acer rubrum, and then you have a cultivar name, which would be an English name in single quotes. So often it's that English name in single quotes that I would say elicits the reaction, and makes people think that that plant's been manipulated. It's not the wild type plant genetic diversity is low. And I would say sometimes those things are true and sometimes they're not. And unfortunately, when we use the word cultivar, it is such a huge umbrella term that it is capturing plants that basically are wild type plants often was less genetic diversity the straight species, if you will. And then on the other end of that spectrum, you have plants that have been heavily manipulated, have been part of breeding programs for generations that are very, very different from wild type plants, sometimes not recognizable, at least when you compare those plants to a wild type form of that species or to of that of that plant's parent species. So you have a wild type plant that often is associated with a plant that's so different and calling those the same things or assuming that those can provide equal and generally what is assumed to be lesser value to pollinators, that's where it gets a little bit messy. Because it is just so complicated, there's so much nuance because of this really broad term. So a cultivar, it would remain, it also has traits that like they stay stable. That's right. Like if you keep propagating it again and again and again.

And with commercial cultivars, they're usually cloned, I think. Yes. So they're done asexual reproduction. They're done by tissue culture or cuttings or whatever as a sometimes by seed, but but more often not. Yes. Yes. The majority would be through clonal means like exactly tissue cultures are cutting, tissue culture, cuttings, divisions, I would say divisions probably less so just because you're not able to produce nearly the numbers. There are some seed strains, especially if that seed strain will provide a really consistent seed set, or you know, that progeny will be very similar to the parents. There are some seed grown cultivars out there, but they're in the minority. That's one of the arguments against cultivars in general is that there's not a lot of genetic diversity and they're not able to cope with issues like pressures like climate change, where if something were to affect that one cultivar, it would wipe all of them out because there's not that geneticage insurance that there would be in a straight surface. If you planted a massive only that, you might lose them all. Right. Exactly. Okay. So, but that's not, but okay. So, and then what we, when we did the time story, what, you know, I found out even more clearly what I sort of thought was true, and what you explained to me was really true, is that that's not all cultivars have been so this serrated of all of their resilience and so forth, you know, at all. I mean, some are quite close to how nature made them. Yes, exactly. I mean, and that's why we've been trying to use the word selection a lot more. And that's it. That was the biggest ahaha I think for readers of the story. And also for me, as we talked about it more deeply, is that many of these plants that we have known as cultivars, and again, some people disdain that put that word down, are selections. They were found. Nature made them. And someone said, oh, look at that. It's a little different. That's beautiful. I wonder if we could propagate that. It wasn't that it was made in a lab. Right. Exactly. And in many senses, it is the wild type plant. But again, the genetic diversity is low, but you have a wild representative of that species. And it's probably going to behave in a very similar way to the wild type plants, in many cases, as long as the flower type isn't dramatically changed or the foliage form and color isn't dramatically changed, it's likely going to hold a lot of that same value. Right, and so some examples, for instance, like of plants that were found as selections were made. So the only human intervention was that a human saw it and said, oh, huh, and selected it. But and then of course it's been propagated since, but but it wasn't altered in some way. Right. So what are some examples that people might recognize? I think the one that that comes to mind right away is flux-pinnaculata-genna. And this is an incredible selection of flux-pinnaculata was found in Tennessee by Jennifer Ruitt, which is also one of the really cool things about cultivars. Sometimes you get this story that goes along with these plants. You, with that name, come some history and a little bit of a clue to its background. We know those genetics came from Tennessee and that is actually sometimes more information than you get from some of these wild-type plants or straight species that you're buying at a garden center where you know nothing about where that plant came from. From, excuse me, but yeah, Plexipiniculata gena, this incredible selection of Plexipiniculata, It's a really strong grower in the garden. Produces lots of flowers, has sturdy stems, disease recitant foliage, but those flowers on that plant are just a little bit different from typical flocks of anaculata, probably by the selection was made. They're smaller. Exactly. Yeah, they're smaller and they're more numerous per inflorescence and butterflies love it. It's incredible. Yeah, it's a great plant. It was gifted to me years ago. It's wonderful. It's really wonderful. Really powerful. But there's many such examples. So rather than than like jump to the conclusion as a consumer that cultivar is bad, or again, something from a lab, you know. How do I other places that I can look for clues? Like how do I, whether by looking at the plant, or whether by looking at the label, or what, how do I figure it out a little bit? And one thing would be, of course, I should say to look at your trials at a place like Mount Cuba and these extensive trials read the trial reports, which are all online, I can give links to where people can find those. You explain what's what in the house and also the performance of each plant. But beyond that, other ways. Yeah, that's right. I mean, you just, you do have to do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do mean, you just you do have to do do do do do do do but there are some clues that are offered on plant tags, even before you do that first Google of the plant name. If you see the full binomial nomenclature, the genus specific epithet, if you see both of those names present, that likely that means that that plant is probably similar to the straight species or it's possible it's similar to the straight species. if you see both of those names present, that likely, that means that that plant is probably similar to the straight species, or it's possible it's similar to the straight species. If you see that, that Latin name attached to it, and that plant doesn't look too different from a wild type plant, it's probably not that far removed. You'd probably have to do a little bit more googling and understand where that plant was. It came from initially who bred it if there was any breeding, or if this was just a wild type selection. If you generally just see a genus name though, that first name, that first Latin name with a cultivar name next to it, not always but sometimes that plant will be a hybrid. So we're starting to talk about plants that are farther removed from a wild type plant, more regulation, more change. And that can generally mean work.

It can sometimes mean less wildlife value associated with that plant. Right. And sometimes there's all kinds of gobbledygook on the label. Yes. Yes. We have trade names. There are many names. I can't pronounce that. I know. There are some of are literal code about, you know, and if you learn how to read the code from wherever that plant was bred from, you can kind of gain a little bit of insight into that plant. But sometimes, my general rule of thumb is if I start to see weird combinations of letters and numbers and words that don't really make sense. That's a plant that's probably been manipulated

a little bit more than others.

And it's probably patented also, isn't it? It is. Very likely. Yeah. And sometimes you see on the label, you'll see what is it, P P for plant patent or patent applied for or something like that. Don't you sometimes see that on the label? I'm just an expert. Absolutely can. And you can actually look up those patent applications.

And that is some of the ways that we've learned about,

maybe what those hybrid parents were, where it was found, what makes that plant different. Basically, when a plant breeder or a plant introduction out that wants to patent something, they have to justify why it's different and give a little bit of information about that plant before the patent is granted. So that can give you some good information, at least I would say a starting point. But generally, when I'm shopping for plants, shopping for cultivars, and I'm really more concerned about supporting wildlife in my home landscape, I'm either looking for wild-type plants or I'm looking for plants that are simple selections of wild type species. So visually I see the plant or I see a picture of that. It's really beautiful. Whatever. What are the traits that are the most sort of hazardous to have been tinkered with in terms of, you know, yielding a plant that might not be pleasing to the insect population, for example. Like, what is the stuff? Is it, like, if you change a flock from four feet to three feet, or I don't know how many feet, but you know what I mean? It's like, I don't know if that makes a big deal, but if you double the flowers, is that especially costly? Isn't that one of the most costly things that are done? I mean, double them and then make them potentially have inaccessible resources. Yes. I think any number of things could change some small piece of that plant and make it less accessible to a specific type of insect. But in general, the biggest changes that we see that make the biggest difference in the number of insects that are interacting with the various flowers in the trial garden, it's often when those flowers are doubled or there's a mutation where fertile flowers or fertile parts of that in fluorescence are replaced with sterile parts or parts that are more similar to petals. Now these doubling mutations often do happen in the wild and then plant breeders get a hold of those genetics and then continue to use those to make new and novel flower forms, maybe breeding different colors. But that's when we see a real shift. It's this kind of floral mutations that when you compare those flowers to the flowers of a wild population, wild hydrangeas are a great example. If you have those big mop head inflorescence, that you know, when I think of hydrangea, that's the image that goes into my head, these big mop head, billowy inflorescence, but there's been a tradeoff of style of resubstance with those plants. A lot of those fertile flowers, which

is where the insects are gaining that value,

that pollen, that nectar, a lot of those fertile flowers

have been replaced with sterile flowers, which looks good to us,

but there's less value for those insects

to gain from that inflorescence.

So if you see something that's really departed

and really changed from the wild-type plant, especially when we're talking about the flower, generally that comes with a cost. So that would be a great one then to look up. Again, after we talked the last time for the times column, I looked up the patent pending, as PP is patent-pending, I'm not a patent patent. But I'm so sorry. Sometimes I can't think of anything. Plant names lately are escaping me, Sam. Should I be concerned? No, I've been the same. I know. Sometimes I just look at it and I think, who are you? But if there's one where it looks different or it has the gibberish on the label, I did some searches and I would just put in the cult of our name and then I would put patent application or something like that into a Google search. And it was fascinating to learn about how some of them have been created. And, you know, whereas with others, it was, I guess you'd say, selection. All you got was an anecdote. There was no patent application. All you got. Right. You know, if you looked up this, the source of them or the history of them or who introduced, that's the other thing I sometimes do in Google is, who introduced. Yes. And then you see it's this beautiful anecdote about someone found it on a walk in the woods. Yeah. Yeah. I love the history and the stories behind some of these plants. Yeah. And you do have to be careful sometimes with selections as well. Sometimes those selections were selected for ornamental qualities. And for differences, one monk's population, especially in flowers, like hydrangea arborescence and a bell. It's a very famous hydrangea arboresens that's been around forever. It's what I think of as kind of an heirloom plant. That was found in the wild. That was a wild plant was found in Anna Illinois in the early 1900s. I think it was 1903, 1904. I think these two sisters found it in the woods and recognized that it was different and brought it into cultivation. Now, this was a plant that was kind of, I would say, an evolutionary dead end. It was producing a lot less flowers. Fertile flowers was not reproducing as well as its companion plants out in the wild that had those lace cap and fluorescence with all those fertile flowers. But it was different and people thought it was beautiful, so that's the reason it was selected. But many selections do retain a lot of the same value, especially if those flowers are very similar and not that far removed from other flowers of the wild population. Right. Right. So the other thing that we talked about that I want to bring up here is, is that whether a cultivar, a cultivated variety is more appropriate in a given setting or a wild type stray species is more appropriate, are there moments when, because again, like a lot of times we we get the of like, never use this or never use that. But it's not quite that black and white. However, there are some times and you hinted at this in the beginning of our conversation today that in restoration work and conservation work, it would be most important to go as far in the direction of wild type, especially local and so forth as we can. Yes absolutely. So that's where that's really important to go. And in terms of cultivars, do you feel like they have a place that's more their place? I do. I think there's a time and a place for all these plants. And while types, see grown plants that are collected, or the seed is collected from local populations, ethically, of course, is most applicable to a restoration site. That's not to say that it couldn't be used in any home garden as well. And it's really cool that we're starting to see this void between ecological restoration and home

horticulture starting to narrow.

And a lot of the lessons that are used in our natural

from our natural lands management are starting to be used

in home landscapes as well.

And I think that's wonderful.

But you don't see a whole lot of cultivars

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