From away to garden.com and Robinhood Radio.com, this is Away to Garden with Margaret Roach. You're a weekly invitation to dig in and grow. Both gardeners and their plants have to be more resilient than ever these days in our changing climate it seems. At the High Line in New York City, one of the best-known natural anywhere, that's especially so since it's built on the preposterous site of a former rail line, 30 feet above street level, meaning a plant must be an exceptional performer to make the grade. Richard Hayden, the High Line senior director of horticulture, is here to tell us about the plants that excel in different extremes of moisture, for instance, or in shade, or offer the most ecologically, and also about how the team is using certain species to create weed suppressing living green mulch, and also shifting their thinking about gardens as ecological communities rather than a collection of plants. So more in a moment, but first, these messages. Underwriting support for a Way to garden provided by Colorblends wholesale flower bulbs. A third-generation bulb company offering top-sized flower bulbs directly to landscape professionals and ambitious residential gardeners on the web, Colorblends.com. And by high-moving seeds, Wolcott Vermont, professional quality vegetable, and Erbil Seeds that are 100% organic and non-GMO project verified. On the web, highmowingseeds.com and by White Flower Farm offering a wide range of carefully selected and expertly grown garden plants. On the web, whiteflowerfarm.com. Richard Hayden joined the Highline four years ago to lead the team that manages the mile and half long stretch of gardens with new areas set to open this year. On Saturday, May 30th, the Highline is holding its first-ever plant cell with 39 different species the team has propagated from the garden. Richard is here today to tell us about some of those top performers and the roles they play in making the

Highline work aesthetically and ecologically. Welcome back to the program. How are you? I'm great. It's good to be with you again, Margaret. Happy spring or is it summer this week? I kind of have whipped lunch. Oh my gosh. We've got four days this week above 80 degrees in New York City. So we went from winter two days of spring and now we're into full-blown summer. So we're scrambling to get everything getting everything ready for the upcoming year. Yeah. As I said in the introduction, I know you've told me that you in the Highline Horticulture team are thinking about gardens as ecological communities rather than a collection of plants. So can we talk about that just a little to get started? Yeah. Yeah. Because I think that's an interesting mindset and how does that mindset shift affect you guys and the place, you know? Well, the interesting thing is that when they were first designing the Highline and the Gardens, Piedardo, our garden designer, worked with the design team and they came up with this framework of using ecological habitats as a design framework. So we have woodlands, we have grasslands, we have woodland edge, and we have a wetland. And so by using those as a framework, obviously you can create this episodic journey that gives you a different emotional experience as you come out of the woodland into the grassland and seeing the wetland with the Hudson in the background. It's just a way to kind of tell the story, but it's also a really good way of building a garden that will support each other, all the plants have, you know, like cultural needs. And so it just makes I think for a much more evocative experience. And so when you're looking at an area, I mean, or you have a new area that you're going to plan and you have a couple of new portions of the place of the park opening this year, I mean, is that part of the thinking? Do you all talk about that? Do you know what I mean? Do you talk about the plant communities? Do you do homework on the plant communities? Well, we do. And of course, we don't, we're not 100% native. Pete likes to say that gardens are for people. And so he wants to use the best combination of plants that he can put together that fit within that ecological habitat. So we have a couple of new gardens coming since you mentioned that. At 17th Street, we had a big construction project going on for nine years. And those gardens kind of went follow because we can't garden in those beds because there's buildings going on next door that could basically drop a window or something on you. So after nine years,'ve on the head of chance to re-reinnovate

that particular section and I asked Pete to do a brand new design for us. And so that's kind of based on a grassland he's using a new grass for us which is parabolas arroydys, acyline, sacatone, it's actually a west coast species as a kind of matrix. So that'll be a new kind of grassland and we're getting 15 brand new taxa brand new plants for the high line in that design. And then up at 34th Street where it's the very north end of the park we're getting a new walkway in the in the western rail yard section which if people know is the originals kind of self-seated landscape. It's not one of the design landscapes.

But at the very North End where people come in, we kind of felt like it needed to be more special. Because people come to the High Line, they look on Google Maps or something, and they see entrance to the High Line, and they come in up at 34th Street, and frankly, it's just a little bleak. So Pete has done a brand new garden for us there. And because we want to block out the the street and the bus stop and the parking lot. He's designed that as kind of a woodland

edge kind of thicket. So lots of shrubs, lots of flowering spring shrubs, lots of vipurnums, red buds, a lot will actually, I think it'll be a great bird garden because I was just going to say, you know, the birds miss the shrubs, the shrub layers, what we've really gotten rid of in so much of our world. And that's so important for them, not just for, you know, it's both for places to hide, places to nest, stuff to eat, you know, pollinators, then use it and they go after the birds grow up to the bugs that are going after the flower. So the shrubs are so important. And lots of fallberries because it's all about this seasonal look. So lots of great looking fallberries which will provide nutritious many natives by the way, which would provide, you know, that nutritious seed for that migrating bird to and really fatten up and be able to make itself. Well, when you were talking, I mean, to go about the West Coast grass species that you said you were using it as a matrix. So let's just dip into that because that's another word that I think people hear lately, matrix plantings. And it's sort of like, what is that and then obviously not in the you know advanced landscape architects description from the textbook but but like to you what's a matrix what is that? Sure so I think the way Pete out of office is the term it's designing in drifts and designing in layers so often and for any works both, and, and it works both in woodlands and in grasslands. We'll have a couple of ground cover species that become what we call the matrix. And they're repeated and they are, they play well with others. They're not super competitive, but they just create what we like to call a green mulch. They cover the ground, they provide some interest, but they really provide kind of a stage for these other perennials to come up through and perform and do their thing and then maybe recede. The matrix works really well, for instance, with spring bulbs, because for instance, right Right, let's say we've got some little species tulips and some little tender narcissus out in the garden. And as the matrix comes up, which in many cases can be things like autumn more grass as Larry, or it could be Kalimitha, there's a sterile species that we use. And as those come up, then the bulbs, the bulb foliage gets to wither down inside and you're not aware of that withering bulbs. It's just a way of kind of thinking about covering the ground, you know, mother nature, we know of porza vacuum. So anytime that there's an opportunity for we'd see to get in it will. So we like to cover it with plants that we like.

I think it I think it was in a book with maybe with Noel King's Barry. I think Pete and Noel, I think they made the analogy of that the matrix is the cake and the show your plants are the pieces of fruit nuts that are mixed into the batter or something like that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think I made that up. I think that was from a book. They didn't they collaborate on a book. They did. Yeah, so I think it was from that fruit cake analogy. So, you know, there's the there's the batter. There's the the main the foundation, but there's also these yummy bits that you know show off here and there. And so and I remember years ago being told by Claudia West of phytodesign, she said, you know, plants are the mulch, plants are the mulch. And so that's that green mulch idea. And it's besides being, as you were just explaining, you know, that it, you know, it hides some things and it can steal some things that are going out of bloom and so on

and so forth. It also minimizes some maintenance if it's well executed, doesn't it? I mean, doesn't

it help weed suppression and other things? Yeah, and it'll actually help conserve moisture in some situations too. You know, the sezularia of the Anomorbras is a good example. It doesn't really seat around for us. It just creates this beautiful kind of, you know, eight to 12 to 15 inch tall, you know, green feathery, understory, blooms in the fall, kind of looks beautiful, has a beautiful kind of limey green, because Pete's very much about, you know, leaf texture and leaf color. And, you know, flowers are just one small aspect of the way he designs. When you've got these just great bullwork plants that always are going to look good, it just gives a really nice opportunity for everything else to over a jump out of it. In the introduction, I was speaking about how all of us, wherever we're gardening, it's getting a little crazier by the minute. Plants are being put to the test and things that might have worked at a certain point if you've been gardening a long time in a space. Don't perform exactly the same way and so forth. You've identified some plants that are really working well for you, despite your extra challenging site really, very exposed site. And that's, some of those are going to be featured in your plant sale on May 30th. And with the transcript of the show, I've run away to garden.com. I can give all the links how people can find out about that special day. And I know you're going to have some garden talks, some plant talks, and a Q&A booth or or whatever, like a table some of your expert gardeners are going to help answer people's questions and lots of good stuff. But you've, I think the categories you have are like there are habitat plants, the ones that really are super performers ecologically and shade plants that put up with the low-light conditions and wetland and rain garden plants and drought and climate resilient plants. So you kind of have learned which ones work in those niches, so to speak. Right. This idea of resilient plants really came out of this educational and exhibit that we've been doing called Nature in the City, which is also on the website. People can visit the website and put that link in the show notes. It's just as the whole idea is that the Highland is so much more than just a pretty walk in the park. We are a really provider of ecological services here in the city. And so we are habitat. We see, we just did a bird walk first bird walk within New York City, bird alliance yesterday. We saw Paul Moorblers just a lot of new things coming in. So it's an exciting it's an exciting part but we're also climate resilient right. I like to say if you want to know what you should be planting in the face of climate chaos and we know we longer droughts, we're getting stronger rainstorms. You know, you look to the plants that are growing happily 30 feet in the air with less than 18 inches of soil. We get really these incredible wind tunnels that get formed by different buildings around us. We get reflected scorch off of glass high rises. It's certain times of the year you'll just see like a whole garden will just kind of brown out because the reflection from the sun is just hitting it just right. So, you know, if you're a plant on the high line, you are chances are, you know, really able to resist a lot of these different aspects. And so that's where we came up with this idea of being able to actually propagate plants from

the high line. We've got over 2,000 plants that are going to be ready for sale in the 30th. And featuring the plants that we really felt, you know, put the, the, the best-faced forward for the high line iconic high high-line plants that Pete uses frequently, but

also the ones that are really able to withstand a lot of these different conditions.

Yeah. Well, like in the habitat plant list, the Anis hiss up, the Columbine, Echinacea the paparia, the monartheficialos, the various pygnthomum, which is a super pollinator. I mean, it's like that thing's a buzz, that little plants a buzz. Yeah. And we've got three different Pignanthomum we're offering. Three different amounts. So we're really excited to be able to have to feature those. There's such great plants. Yeah, and you have the vernonia is mentioned. And obviously the asglepius. So again, it's not only met the test. It's met your test because it's the extra layer of pressure. Right. Yes. And yeah, you're welcoming in a very difficult environment. You're welcoming this wildlife, all this activity, and you're seeing as you just pointed out, you know, orbllers are visiting right now, and you know, there's all kinds of interesting insects and et cetera. So yeah, and you've identified things that do in the shade for you, because you have a lot of trees. I mean, even though you only have like what, 18 inches of soil depth, there's some crazy thing that trees are growing up there and underneath them. We do. We do. We do. Terella and various nestedges and you know, all kinds of great things. Yeah, and we have our shade, our shade asterisk that do really well for us. You know, one of our favorite shade ground covers is the Japanese forest grass. How can it glow up? Yes. It has such a great texture and has such great winter interests. The other thing, of course, that you have to be on the high line. You have to have some sort of seasonal interest. And the Japanese forest grass turns this beautiful, kind of tawny, caramel color stays up in these big drifts. Yes. The other thing I think that's underrated and plants is the way they move and the wind. And that gives us that kind of fourth dimensional experience. And so that's a good one. And that's one where, as you pointed earlier, Pete, some of his plants are not native. And that's one that's not, but it's also not aggressive, invasive, whatever. I've had that plant

sort of right by my leading up to the door kind of long pieces of the path for decades. And it's stayed put. I mean, the clumps get a little bigger, but it's not like a crazy plant, and it's not a troublesome plant, and it's so beautiful. And as you point out, it has that almost four seasons really interest. It takes some deep shade. It really does. I have a gold cultivar. So it just screams even in the shade. it's just so bright and so happy and beautiful.

So yeah, so that's, you know, one of the exceptions to the largely native, you know, there's a lot of natives in the palette as well. You have another plant that I love that's not a native. Now I'm going to have to remember what it was a flomest, right? It's like a mint relative, I guess. Oh. Amos-Rosellian. Yes. A crazy little herbie kind of thing. Kind of a Mediterranean plant. It's funny. I came to Horticulture from doing it in Los Angeles. There were very few plants that I knew from my time in Los Angeles that actually translated to the highlight, but Phloma, Rosaliana, as one of them, has this big leaf texture and then has these flower stalks that grow up about 18 to 24 inches above with kind of a pale yellow, which one more time make a beautiful seed head and just really create really good winter interest as well. The texture is so great with that plant. Yes, yeah, yeah. And again, I discovered it first many, many years ago in like an herb nursery or something. Do you know what I mean? It was like, it was this oddball and I was fascinated by it. And yeah, so there are exceptions to the native thing. But yeah. So other kind of tough spots that you know, there have been like, are there kind of signature plants do you feel like that are developing for the high line? Do you know what I mean? Like when you spend now like 17 years, is that how many years it is? How many years? 17 since the first section opened.

Yeah.

So it's like, are there sort of, do you feel like there are plants that are synonymous

with, you know, because that kind of happens where you say, oh, I'm going to go to see the blah, blah, as at such and such garden. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think one one of the probably one of the most I feel one of the most iconic

Highline plans and and Pete loves as well is

Threadleaf Blue Star, I'm Sonia Hubercdiye, which is the only native to Arkansas and Oklahoma in flood plains. Anytime you hear flood plain, you think that's a tenacious plant because it can hold on. It doesn't drown. Del It's a water and then that spot may dry out later on, but it gets about what, four or five feet tall, ferny ferny foliage, bright green, blue flowers in May or so, which are lovely. But then the real shine happens in the fall because it just turns this russet gold caramel. I don't know what color you call it. All the above. All the above rich. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. It's true. And with that texture, it's just such a showy fall addition. And it holds up pretty well for the winter too. The leaves will fall, but it still holds a nice kind of dome-. So it's a great one. The rattlesnake master, another high, I think, a great highline iconic plant, Arringium Yuccafolium. It's tall spikes, if you will. It's really unusual looking, and it's airie plant, in North America, a prairie plant. And I think it got its name because the native people would break off one of the stalks and then shake it as they walked through the prairie to kind of keep the rattlesnakes from the pathway. But it has this really tall kind of globe shaped, small globe shaped flowers, which is their pollinator magnets. We see all sorts of fun pollinators all over them. And then one more time just has that beautiful winter structure because it holds up really well. Is it kind of solvary, yes? A little silver gray foliage. Yucca folium would mean a little bit of a silvery-ish looking, looking a little like a

yucca kind of silvery-shaped. And that's, you know, I mean, for a plant of that stature, the silvery-ish grayish kind of thing, it feels a little unusual. So it's really a hydroma plant, I think. Yeah, that's a nice way of putting it. I'm going to steal that high drama plant.

Okay, that's a drama queen.

Yeah. So those are a couple. Anything else that sort of comes to mind for you? So I have to put in a pitch for Euphorbia Coralata, flowering spurt, and other, it's one of our native Euphorbia's. It is the fine textured version of the rattlesnake master because they combine really well together. You know, kind of upright, very, very tiny white flowers and umbles, kind of round umbles. It's just, and it receives for us a bit, but it's not, you know, it's not too opportunistic, which gives you this nice kind of dynamic feeling when it suddenly shows up over there and you think, oh, it looks good with that plant. But it's also a pollinator powerhouse and has structure, has a fine texture, but it also has structure at the same time and just really looks good with grasses. So planting for, we have a few minutes left and I just wanted to say that when we're planting for with ecology in mind and creating plant communities and so forth, we're not doing one Z's, right? Like we're not putting one of this in one of that. Is that another thing that you, because you've had such success attracting again creatures, you know, all these native creatures who wouldn't necessarily be there otherwise, you do use a lot of, as you said, drifts or masses and repeating things so that they can kind of find it, you know, that there's enough mass to attract them. As a person. Absolutely. I think, I think one of the reasons that were so bio-diverse and. Doug Talami has called us an important connector between wild places with our so far 33 species of bees that are using the high line for food or shelter, it's the massing. We have 560 taxa, so different species and cultivars, and they are masked. He's got some great ways that he talks about the way. It's rhythm, it's sequence, it's texture, but it's repetition is the big one. And so when it repeats, just like in nature, you look to nature and you say, oh, there's 15 of that over there and then 6 here and it kind of looks like it maybe got spread by a wind pattern or something. It feels natural, but it's giving you enough biomass that, you know, for instance, if you just have one milkweed, I don't think the monarchs would find it. But when you can put 15 or 20 in a certain section of the garden,

then it becomes a critical mass. There's enough whatever the milk we're just giving off that the butterfly can find. Then you get that symbiosis and so it just creates. And then the diversity of all of the of the plants, especially in the grasslands that we have, the diversity of flowering plants, the continual bloom of something going, you know, basically from now until, you know, October, November, just makes it even that much more unattractive habitat because we'll have something for everybody. Right. And the other great thing about the massing or repeating, as you said, is that it helps the design aesthetically hang together too. So for people's enjoyment visually, do you know what I mean? It's like as opposed to the onesies thing. So it's good for everybody, all creatures, great and small. Absolutely. As they say. So I'm always glad to talk to you. And I said with the transcript of the show, I want to give the information on the various things we spoke about, including the May 30th event and just about visitation. And so forth, when do the two new sections opening? When's the first one of those two opening? So the 17th Street Garden is open now and we're waiting on plans to finish it up contract growing some plants and they'll be ready in June. So that'll be finished in June. The 34th Street Garden, it looks like it'll be opening in September or October. Great. Well more to look forward to. But thank you, thank you, Richard, for making time today and I hope I'll see you soon and talk to you again soon too. Absolutely. Always great to talk plants with you, Margaret. And I hope I'll talk to all the rest of you again soon too. Now don't miss an episode. You can subscribe, free to the podcast version of the show on Apple podcasts or Spotify. And you can find me anytime at away to garden.com and on Facebook and on Instagram as at away to garden. And happy gardening meantime. Underwriting support for away to garden provided by color blends wholesale bulbs, a third-generation bulb company offering top-sized flower bulbs directly to landscape professionals and ambitious residential gardeners on the web a way to garden.com andodradio.com

...