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Pints with Jack: The C.S. Lewis Podcast

S9E16 – Abolition – Ch. 2 Pt. 3 ("The Tao or... Nothing")

Pints with Jack: The C.S. Lewis Podcast

David Bates, Matt Bush, and Andrew Lazo

Christianity, Religion & Spirituality

4.9671 Ratings

🗓️ 17 February 2026

⏱️ 54 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Can we reject the Tao and still have morality? Does affirming the Tao stifle moral progress? Is arguing for the Tao a religious or even a Christian argument? We dive in to these questions and more as we wrap up Chapter 2 of "The Abolition of Man".

[Show Notes]

Transcript

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0:00.0

The rebellion of new ideologies against the Tao is a rebellion of the branches against the tree.

0:10.0

If the rebels could succeed, they would find that they had destroyed themselves.

0:15.0

The human mind has no more power of inventing a new value than of imagining a new primary color, or indeed of

0:23.9

creating a new sun and a new sky for it to move in.

0:29.3

This is Pints with Jack, season 9, episode 16.

0:34.7

The Abolition of Man, Chapter 2, the Dow.

0:38.9

Part 3, The Dow or Nothing.

0:43.4

Have you been looking, everywhere searching for a place where you belong?

0:48.8

Away from the masses among clinking glasses where the hear the hearth fire is on.

0:59.6

Let the laughter welcome you in that eagle and child din There's room at this table to take a seat and tuck right in

1:04.9

Pints with Jack

1:06.2

Pints with Jack

1:17.2

Welcome Fred Pines with Jack Welcome friends to Pints with Jack this season.

1:19.9

We have been reading The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis.

1:24.0

And today we are wrapping up chapter two, the Dow.

1:28.8

And that's exciting because I do find with all of Lewis's stuff so far in the abolition of man, you crescendo to the truth that comes at the end. And it can be like toughest the first

1:35.8

part. Then a little bit more is revealed the second part. But if you stop there, you're kind of like,

1:39.9

I still don't really know everything yet. And then you get to the end, you're like,

1:43.4

oh, this all makes sense to me now.

1:45.4

I got it.

1:46.5

I'm not going to pretend like I actually had that moment, but I'm sure between the other two that that's happened. So we're going to get some good dialogue. Gentlemen, how are you? Andrew, you just came back from Joshua Tree, didn't you? I went to celebrate Diana Glyer's birthday with Kristen and Matthew Clark was there, a few other friends.

2:05.4

And so, yes, my first time ever in Joshua Tree, even though it is the south end of my native state.

...

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