I'm John Batchel with my colleague Anatole-Leven, just back from Europe.

He was in Hungary giving lectures and

speaking with the people as they face an election soon enough in April between what is

Victor Orban and what might be a man named Peter Magyar, I believe if I pronounce it correctly,

who is no left-winger utopian, but in any event, that would be a

surprising turn away from Orban these many years. At the same time, there is the larger

story of NATO, quite different than a. EU is 27 countries, all very large economies enough

so that they are competitive and have rules and follow them.

The NATO is 32 countries, and they have a completely different understanding of their task and their

responsibility. I note in your most recent essay, Lithuania, I know Estonia, I don't have Poland,

but I do have the countries that are on the front line with Russia

are very reluctant to go along with anything that breaks away from the U.S. because of the threat of Russia.

At the same time, the President of the United States is making remarks that are hard to understand unless he means it about leaving NATO, about we never did need NATO, that remark about the Strait of Hormuz.

How do those hawkish members of NATO hear Donald Trump's remarks, is it significant to them that it's not idle when he talks like that?

Well, I mean, they are in a terrible bind because, yes, I mean, they've nailed themselves unconditionally to America in the past.

You know, the Estonian foreign minister has gone off to Israel since the war.

You know, Estonia is offering, I mean, God knows what they can offer, but, you know, help with the war.

But, yes, on the other hand, of course, they are deeply, deeply distrustful of Donald Trump.

And also, I mean, the Vance and what they see as the isolationist elements in America.

So, I mean, you know, at the moment, they are basically just seeing if they can possibly, you know,

wait for two and a half, well, almost three years

for a different US administration in in 2029.

...