I'm John Bachelor. This is the New John Bachelor show. Josh Rogan of the Washington Post. His new book is Chaos Under Heaven. Trumps She in the Battle for the 21st century. It is the spring of 2020, just yesterday. And the expectation is that the virus can be

dealt with in some fashion in time, a vaccine, careful safety mechanisms, a marshalling of the

population of the United States or the population of Europe, of all continents,

to prevent the spread of the virus enough so that health facilities can care for those who are very ill.

The vulnerable are over 60 or over 50 have the preexisting conditions.

We know all this.

But still, it is necessary to name the thing correctly, as Confucius tells us.

Where did the virus come from?

How did it suddenly show itself in Wuhan?

One theory, advanced by the Chinese, is that it was natural out of jumping from one species to another, perhaps bats to pangolin and then to mankind,

who would consume the pangolin.

Another theory advanced by the Chinese soon after the revelations of the catastrophe in Wuhan

was that it was spread by the United States military.

It was fantastic at the time and it was puzzling, but it was a theory.

Another approach was a lab accident.

Josh spends a deal of time pulling together what we know so far about the lab accident thinking.

It happens.

And the lab, the Wuhan WIV, the Wuhan lab, was identified as early as 2017 of having

security problems or not being well taken care of. It had two level two labs, two level three labs, 17 level one labs, two level three labs, and one level four lab.

Josh, if I say this incorrectly, help me, the level four lab is the one that was important.

What do we know about that lab and what don't we know?

Well, as you rightly pointed out, in 2017, four years ago, U.S. diplomats traveled to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the world's leading background of virus research center, met with a scientist there and wrote two cables back to Washington, warning that their new level for a lab was woefully insufficient in terms of its safety

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