This is John Batchel, conversation with Sinan Chidi, head of the Turkey Project at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies,

about Erdogan, 21 years in power, Recip Erdogan, showing signs of mortality, looking for the succession struggle.

One possibility is that Turkey could emerge from the dictatorship, from the brutality of these years.

And she was a man who is now jailed without charges, Imamoglu, the former mayor of Istanbul, very popular.

And I learned from Sinan the irony that Erdogan was once jailed by a previous dictatorship, and they were

pressed to release him, the EU pressed them, and he was released and became a powerful man.

Turkey wants to be a member of the EU. There is leverage here. Sinan explains, more of this

later. That's a good question, John.

The answer to that is we're not sure, right?

I mean, it depends on, and I would say,

if the country and the institutions after Aduon stepping out of the scene or not being able to run,

if the rule of law and elections law is followed in Turkey.

Now, on the optimistic side, what we could sort of perceive is a scenario in which by, look, Aardouins no longer able to govern. The country is going to elections. And Mr. Imam al is in jail without formal charges. It's a kangaroo, you know, sort of unproven or unstated charge, simply because, as we said,

he basically dared challenge Erdogan as the main opposition parties candidate. Now, the European

Court of Human Rights in Europe as a political entity could sort of put a considerable amount

of pressure on Turkey saying, look, you know, you're an aspiring member of to become a

member of the European Union, you got out free and fair elections, this guy that's in jail,

Mr. Imam Ali, that he's, you know, they can make a direct call to have his release.

And that's the similar sort of play that was used to release Erdogan from jail back in 2000,

you know, whenever it was prior to him becoming

prime minister, because he was also unfairly jailed.