S8 Ep342: Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Fundamentalist Judge John T. Raulston presided over the trial, enjoying the publicity brought by loudspeakers and radio coverage. The defense included civil liberties lawyer Arthur Garfield Hayes, a secular Jew, serving as a const

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John Batchelor

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🗓️ 20 January 2026

⏱️ 13 minutes

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Summary

Guest: Brenda Wineapple. Fundamentalist Judge John T. Raulston presided over the trial, enjoying the publicity brought by loudspeakers and radio coverage. The defense included civil liberties lawyer Arthur Garfield Hayes, a secular Jew, serving as a constitutional anchor. Meanwhile, William Jennings Bryan arrived as a celebrity in a pith helmet, though Scopes noted Bryan ignored his own diabetes by overeating at dinner, revealing a disconnect between his fundamentalist beliefs and medical science.
1925 SCOPES TRIAL CARTOON

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm John Batchelor. Continuing my conversation with Brenda Wineapple, her new book is Keeping the Faith, God, Democracy, and the trial that riveted a nation.
0:26.5	This is the Scopes Monkey Trial of 1925.
0:29.8	We are now at the time that the principles, William Jennings Bryan, many times presidential candidate for the Democratic Party, Secretary of State,
0:39.7	famous now for advancing the literal reading of the Bible, the fundamentalists, what many times
0:46.7	will be translated in evangelicals in the 21st century. However, this is literal reading of the Bible. If it says that God created the world
0:57.5	in six days and arrested on the seventh, they mean days. They don't mean like days. They mean
1:02.8	days. However, the opponent at this trial will be Clarence Darrow, who is the most famous
1:09.6	courtroom drama trial lawyer of the time, a man
1:14.3	who's known as taking on impossible cases and finding a good outcome for the defendant.
1:20.2	They're arriving in a town that is part of the drama. It's a stage set. It's an opera.
1:26.5	Dayton, Tennessee. Brenda tells us there are three hotels. Two of them are closed. There's one Jewish family. There are three Roman Catholic families. It's dominated by Protestant Fundamental America. And the Aqua Hotel is where you go when you come into town. We need to meet the judge. John T. Ralston, 56 years old. What do we need to know
1:46.7	about him, Brenda? Thank you. Thanks. John Ralston was himself a fundamentalist. He found himself
1:54.0	in the middle of this celebrated trial where journalists from all over the country are coming into Dayton.
2:02.6	He's very excited by it.
2:05.2	He was even willing to hold a trial in a football stadium.
2:10.1	So he loves celebrity.
2:12.5	He loves having his picture taken.
2:14.5	But at the same time, he's trying to be very, very fair when he's, when he's
2:21.5	presiding over these larger-than-life figures who've come to town, who he's very excited to meet.
2:29.5	He's admired Brian, for example, for many years, and like Brian, he believes in the Bible, that the Bible should be read literally.
2:41.6	But he at the same time wants to welcome the outsiders, as they were called, that have come representing scopes and the ACLU. So he's trying to be fair.
2:56.1	He has a very difficult job. He comes into the courthouse every day carrying not just a dictionary,
	...

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