This is John Batchel, a conversation with Professor Michael McFaul of the Hoover Institution, Stanford University.

His new book, Autocrats v. Democrats.

Here, Mike weighs the Putinism and its success in Europe.

Also the suggestion that she or the representation of Maoism is popular in Eurasia against the U.S.

and its allies, which is often criticized for being clumsy and ineffective.

Here's Mike to explain it.

It's a balanced ideology confrontation.

Much more later tonight.

Yes.

Oh, no, it's growing for sure.

It's growing because of Putinism.

And Putinism, as I write in the book,

I think we underestimated his appeal,

especially in Europe and the United

States. He invested a lot to promote his ideas of illiberal populist nationalism. And he's got

lots of followers in Hungary, Italy, the UK, France, and here in the United States. Likewise,

the Chinese model of economic development is popular, especially in the developing world, Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin America, Middle East. And they just say, let the state run things and we get things done. And as you know, there's a pretty big debate here in the United States about how we're just inefficient. There's too much bureaucracy. There's too many veto points. And I agree with that

criticism of how we make policy. Here in California, there's too much of that. And it stifles

growth. And so this debate between autocrats and Democrats is real.

My solution is not autocracy.

I don't want us to be more like the Chinese to grow.

My solution is more competition, more innovation.

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