Well, Katie, thank you for coming.

It's always a joy when I get to be on the Strong Women podcast. I'm such a big fan. Yes, and I love that you said it's always because this is like your, I don't know, 10th time. I'm just kidding. I don't even know how many times. Yeah. Yeah, you're a veteran guest. So I appreciate you. It's a badge of honor. Yes, yes. I'm glad you accepted.

Okay, we're going to jump right in because I honor. Yes, yes. I'm glad you accepted.

Okay, we're going to jump right in because I've got some big questions that I'm assuming

our listeners also have.

And it's all around in vitro fertilization and reproductive technology sort of things.

So often when something is legal or doable, it takes us a while to start asking the

right questions, doesn't it? We kind of go, oh, well, this is great, like, especially when it comes

to in vitro fertilization, because so many women have struggled with fertility that it's like, okay, this is the answer.

But listeners, I want you to know that this is going to be a hard conversation, but I

want you to stick with us because as Christians in this current moment, it is so important

for us to dive into these hard topics and really just put them on the table and say, how can we view this

from a biblical framework? What fits with reality, with God's reality? And so that's what we're

doing today, you guys, with Katie. So Katie, I'm putting it on the table in vitro fertilization. Go. Yeah, okay, great. So I look at this

from two different perspectives. The first one is I have been a pastor's wife and doing ministry with

my husband for about 30 years. We've had a lot of close contact with people that have wanted to get pregnant,

that can't get pregnant, that have medical issues, that desperately want to have a baby.

I used to work at the largest Chinese adoption agency in the world. There were a lot of people

there that were turning to adoption because they had dealt with fertility issues. And I remember,

and I have walked very closely with women, that all they want, the only thing they want, the only thing they can think about is what is the pregnancy test going to say this month?

And then the hopes rise, and then they crash, and then they repeat.

And it is a crushing load that especially women have to deal with when they are wrestling

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