You're about to listen to a BBC podcast and I'd like to tell you a bit about the

podcast I work on. I'm Dan Clark and I commissioned factual podcasts at the BBC.

It's a massive area but I'd sum it up as stories to help us make sense of the forces shaping the world.

What podcasting does is give us the space and the time to take brilliant BBC journalism

and tell amazing compelling stories that really get behind the headlines.

And what I get really excited about is when we find a way of drawing you into a subject

you might not even have thought you were interested in.

Whether it's investigations, science, tech, politics, culture, true crime, the environment,

you can always discover more with a podcast on BBC Sounds.

You're listening to BBC Sounds.

Oh, good podcast on the day Wales and I'm the

team for the second test. I'm joined by Welshman, a rugby writer Matthew South

Com and South African journalist and broadcaster Brendan Nall. How are you both?

Very good.

So we're on Zoom because I've gone from the urban hub that is Johannesburg to

Blumfantane is currently a large and imposing

peak looking through my window as we speak feels very different. Matthew you're

still in Joburg but Brendan where are you are you here in Blumfantime too, I am.

I am. I think I don't know where you are.

I'm probably about 100 meters away from your hotel.

Yeah, I don't, it's sort of half hotel, half wildlife park. It's next to the zoo. That's the reason. I'm not sure if the

zoo still going, but the lion cage used to be next to the so that you had lines roaring at night.

...