I am so excited to finally share with you the talk I had just a few days ago with Bob

Mata of the podcast Defense Diaries. Bob is a defense attorney by trade and has been converted

into a true crime podcaster. His show is excellent and we'll tell you

a little bit about it in a second, but in this episode we get into his opinion about

the effectiveness of the prosecution in the Daniel Schaever case with the second

degree murder trial of Mitch Brailsford. We also dive into some of the later stuff in that season,

including a little bit about Richard Elligott and his lawyer.

And finally, we go off the rails and talk about aliens, future tech,

chat GPT, and our personal paranormal experiences.

If you're listening to this on Patreon,

you're gonna get the full two hour long conversation.

If you're listening on the main feed,

I've cut out that extraneous stuff,

but if you wanna hear the full unedited interview,

join us on Patreon or Apple Plus.

And a huge thank you to everyone who supports us.

Now Bob's show called Defense Diaries is a serialized show,

just like ours, where each season he dives into a case,

and his first case is all about John Wayne Gacy.

You see, Bob's father was the defense attorney for John Wayne Gacy and gifted Bob a collection

of cassette tapes that contained pretrial interviews with Gacy that no one had ever heard before.

Now you can turn on Netflix or Hulu and listen to the same old story about Gacy that you've

...