Hello everyone and welcome to the focus group podcast I'm Sarah Longwell publisher of the

bullwork you may have noticed everyone has spent the last few weeks

parsing the numbers of people voting against Donald Trump and Joe Biden in the

primaries. They're even voting for people, in some cases, who have already dropped out of the race.

For example, Nicki Haley is still pulling 10 to 20 percent of the vote, which means there

are a decent number of Republicans showing up just to vote against Donald Trump.

I love that.

But there's also a smaller but still meaningful chunk of Democratic voters showing up

just to vote against Joe Biden,

most notably to protest his handling of the Israel-Hamass war.

The most notable example of this was in Michigan where uncommitted, which was a line on the

ballot, pulled in 13% of the boat, and more in places like Ann Arbor or the

Detroit area and other recent primaries in Wisconsin in New York saw similar efforts.

So we had to talk to a group of these uncommitted voters for Michigan

and see what clues they are leaving us for November. My guest today is

Tommy Vittor, co-host of Crooked Media's Pod Save America,

and their foreign policy podcast, Pod Save the World,

and someone who can help us sort through the roots of the uncommitted vote

and what the Biden campaign can do about it but also this is the

first time I've had a fellow Kenyan graduate on the podcast.

It's great to be here. Long time listener, first time talker, but excited to be on the show.

So Tommy and I, we didn't just both go to Kenyan. We were in the class of 2002. We were both O-Tours,

...