Hey there, I'm Kathleen Goldar and I have a confession to make. I am a true crime fanatic.

I devour books and films and most of all true crime podcasts. But sometimes I just want to know more. I want to go deeper and that's where my podcast crime story comes in

Every week I go behind the scenes with the creators of the best in true crime. I chat with the host of Schemanda,

teacher's pet, Bone Valley, the list goes on. For the Insider Scoop, find

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This is a CBC podcast. Hey, I'm Kelly McEvers from NPR's Embedded and we are bringing you our series Capital Gazette on uncover.

I just want to say there's some strong language in this episode and this series goes in order

so if you haven't yet go back and listen from the first episode. Okay so in that episode we told you how the

staff at the Capitol Gazette put out a paper in the parking lot the day of the shooting.

After that night one of the reporters who was there, Chase Cook,

actually kept reporting on the shooting. He did a detailed timeline of what happened. He did interviews with people who knew the shooter.

We haven't said the shooter's name yet in this series, but we will now, mainly because we'll

be talking about his legal case.

It's Jared Ramos.

Anyway, a few weeks after the shooting, Chase decided and his editor backed him up

that he actually wanted to interview Ramos.

Because... he actually wanted to interview Ramos. Because Chase wanted the scoop. No one else had talked to the guy. And because he wanted to ask him why he did it and why he waited seven years after he first got

mad at the paper for publishing a column about him before he attacked it.

Chase wrote him a letter and asked for an interview, didn't get a response, so he drove

to the detention center where Ramos was being held.

I thought that if I could go there that maybe he would let me talk to him because I was from the capital.

And I thought maybe I could get him to talk to me to explain what his reasoning was because he

...