Indeed Presents. Hires you can't afford to get wrong. Like a warehouse operations manager. Uh, where are the forklifts? I sold them. They were too expensive. I got a great deal on these scooters though. You expect us to move a two-term palette on a scooter. It'll be fun. Just think of the core strength you'll build. This is a job for sponsored jobs. This is what happens when you don't sponsor your job on Indeed.

So the next time you need someone to get the job done right,

get matched with quality candidates with an Indeed sponsored job.

Visit Indeed.com slash next hire and sponsor your job today.

I was in a soft play centre on the hottest day of the year

when my daughter asked me,

Mama, are we having fun now?

And honestly, I wasn't so sure.

I'm comedian Susie Ruffle,

and my book, Am I Having Fun Now,

is an honest, funny look at navigating life with anxiety.

It features bonus unfiltered chats

with Romish Ranganaithin, Tom Allen,

Josh Weddickham, Maisie Adam and Rosie Jones.

And it's available now in paperback, ebook and audio.

From NBI Studios, this is Truth and Justice, a crowdsourced investigation in real time.

I'm Bob super excited to be joined by Mr. Gilbert King today.

Gilbert, I have, because of this show, I listened to true crime podcasts all week, every week to prep for these interviews.

And, and I enjoy most of them, but yours is the first I've had in a long time where I

listened to the first episode and just couldn't stop and binge the entire thing. I put off all sorts of work I was supposed to be doing so that I could listen to your podcast. Well, amazing job on Bone Valley. That's really nice of you, Bob. I don't meet too many people who totally binge it that way, so good for you. Oh, I couldn't stop. And of course, we're joined by Erica. Are you back home, Erica? That looks like a young person closet. Yes, I am back in these tiny closet. I know the class. We well. Yeah. We interviewed Jason a couple weeks ago, and he also was in a closet. I felt left out being the only one. Yeah, yeah, that's how I got my idea. Yeah, that's pretty funny. Oh, so Gilbert, before we start talking about this podcast, I want to talk a little bit about you. So you live in New York City now. Are you from New York? Pretty much. I've been here for like the last 35 years. I'm from upstate New York. So I consider myself a New Yorker now. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, I like to consider myself a New Yorker after I spend a couple days there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I understand that. It's one of my favorite places to visit. And you, before the podcast, you've had quite a career. You've won a Pulitzer Prize.

Yeah. I mean, mostly I do writing. I write books. So I'm not even like a journalist or a newspaper writer.

I've mostly been doing books for like the last 20 years. And it's kind of interesting how this started because I went down to do this story on Leo Schofield's case, thinking maybe I'll just write like a long feature or something like that. And I ended up just saying, you know what, everybody's still alive. I'm kind of not used to that. I'm used to dealing with like documents and cases from the 1940s where everybody's dead, which I don't mind. It's actually less complicated in a lot of ways. Sure. But yeah, I mostly consider myself a narrative nonfiction writer who's just sort of like

...