Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. Today we are continuing making our way through the book, Climate Obstruction, a Global Survey. And good news, this book is now officially out and available for free download. We'll stick a link in the show notes and on the website.

Today, I'm joined by Jen Schneider at Boise State University and Gregory Trencher from Kyoto

University to talk about the coal utilities and transportation industries.

So we talked last time about the fossil fuel industry and the role that it has played

in obstructing climate policy at the global level. But it's not the only industry that is

working to do that. And today we're going to dig into three more. All three of these industries

have mounted efforts to stop governments from regulating emissions or transitioning to

cleaner energy. And a lot of times they kind of dovetail with each other. So coal, for example,

and railroad companies often lobby together because in some ways the railroad industry has

been heavily dependent on coal and vice versa.

We're going to dig into those intersections and what the strategies from these industries look like

and how they differ from the fossil fuel industry's approach in today's episode.

I learned a lot. I hope you will too.

So you wrote in the chapter about why you ended up looking at coal transportation and utilities together.

But I was wondering reading it if you were always looking at them together or if the research sort of led in that direction.

I wish I had an exciting answer for that.

But I actually have always focused on the coal industry,

and I think Greg has written quite a bit about coal as well, but also transportation.

I think you could write a whole chapter just on coal.

I think that would be fascinating, but the editors asked us to connect them, and I think the argument really was that when you think about coal and transport and

others you know like the steel industry or railroad they're very very connected in terms of

the way things flow globally so it's pretty hard to talk about the coal industry without also

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