I'm Molly Wansall.

And I'm Geoffrey Wansel.

And for the last 16 years or thereabouts, we've been having lunch every Saturday and often our conversation turns to murder.

And that's what's prompted us to launch this true crime podcast called Blood Ties.

Hi everyone, welcome back to the Blood Dyes podcast. I'm Molly Wansall and I'm here with

my father, Jeffrey Wansel. Hello everyone. Welcome back. Thank you for listening.

Molly and I have been having a conversation about how much longer Molly can actually do this.

It's for five years almost of podcasts, which is a long time for working woman but we'll

come to a conclusion we'll we'll find something we'll work something out we'll work

something out we won't abandon you the listeners no but anyway Jeffrey you're the one

they're interested in.

I don't believe that for a second.

Absolutely not.

I think that's...

Well, you've got all the storytelling goodness.

Yeah, maybe.

I can't think I can do it without your charm, but let's see.

One, a book has come across my bowels again this week, which I really think is very interesting.

It's about to be published by a company called Seven Dials, and it's by a forensic psychiatrist called Dr. Ben Cave.

It's really good, a lifetime in forensic psychiatry, and he looks at how a psychopath what is psychopathology and it's a

really really interesting um it comes out early in july um he worked in prison secure hospitals

uh he's dealt with the worst of the worst some of which he's anonymized and some of which he hasn't

...