All right, hey, I'm John Gordon.

I'm here with Ryan Holiday, one of my favorite writers.

Ryan, let's start with the important question.

Okay.

You live on a farm.

What made you want to live on a farm and what's that all about?

When my first book came out and, you know, hit the New York Times Best Seller list, I thought,

I should be in New York that's where writers live that's where you have to go right that's where

publishing and I moved to New York and I was working on the obstacles way while I was living there

and I just I hated it I there. And I just, I hated it.

I just hated it.

I hated how expensive it was.

I hated how noisy it was.

Weirdly, I hated how much was going on, right? I felt like I could never say no to anything because

everything felt like the kind of thing that you had to say yes to and so it was

really hard to write and it was really hard just to sort of enjoy life.

And so we ended up moving to Texas.

This is my office here.

We lived in town first and then we ended up sort of heading out in the country a ways.

And it's a farm in the literal sense.

I mean, like we don't grow anything.

We have, you know, cows and goats and chickens and stuff like that,

...